[kzem1]

They are not trying to remove either of those credits. They are just returning it to the income level it was before the Obama stimulus package temporarily raised the income level to qualify. They are working on stopping Illegals from getting the tax credit that was only intended for SS # holders, not Illegals. Unfortunately this administration is allowing Illegals to further fleece the country by filing tax forms with Green Card numbers and taking more of our tax payers money. I guess it depends on which article you read and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.



From an article:



Even though federal law bars illegal immigrants from collecting tax benefits like the earned income tax credit, the current child tax credit provision does not require a tax return to include a Social Security number, which means it’s possible for illegals to claim and get the benefits.

In 2011, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration reported that illegal aliens received a staggering $4.2 billion in refundable child tax credits in 2010, a Senate aide said.



I am sure it is much higher today.

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[ds968]

[quote name='kzem1' timestamp='1417526072' post='164163'] I guess it depends on which article you read and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle .[/font][/quote]

True. We agree on that. I'm still on the fence about tax credits for illegals, ( lol, no pun intended ..illegals and fences ) because I still feel most of them contribute far more to the economy than the benefits they receive.

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[flash]

i don't think there should be tax credits for illegals. frankly, i don't think there should be anything but jail or sending them back. that being said, i think we should make it easy to give them a social security number if they have a job. similarly, if they have kids born here, we should be giving them social security numbers too.



collect their taxes. then, give them what we all get.

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[kzem1]

The problem I have with that is that they will then become a bigger drain on our economy. We both know that most of those people not only pay NO income taxes but will end up with the very TAX CREDITS we are talking about making them a drain on our country. With the number being $4.2B in 2011 god only knows what it is now or will be if Obama's Unconstitutional amnesty is not stopped. Unfortunately it will take SCOTUS because I don't believe the R's have the balls to actually do anything about it. I would also love to see the end to birth right citzenship. We are the only country stupid enough to have it. It was put in place to protect blacks and it is time to end it. A few billion more for Illegals, free healthcare, free welfare, free SS, free Medicaid, Free Medicare, realization that hiring an illegal is now $3k cheaper than hiring an American for the same job may ultimately finally turn the country against these actions and lock down our border, increase work visas, have nationwide E-verify to stop the illegals from working so most will leave on their own. Just like they did after the housing market blew up. No job, no money, no freebies, bye bye. Harsh? Yes. I don't care. They broke the law and should not be rewarded for such. Our legal immigration system was supposed to get the best and brightest to bring up America. Not the bottom of the barrel, most of them, that will just live off the rest of us, like kings compared to where they came from. People who say no one would ever want to live on welfare have no idea what kind of life these people come from and no idea how well even Americans have found ways to generationally live off the rest of us with no desire to EVER work.

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[flash]

wrong! they would not be a drain at all if they were working and paying taxes. that's the problem with the right wing thinking. they don't seem to acknowledge the concept of MORE TAX REVENUE.



by the way, nothing done has been unconstitutional. that's just fox news hype. i'm not saying i agree with the step, and it should have gone through congress, but he has the power to do it. you want to talk about unconstitutional, let's address income tax.



i have no idea where you get the idea that the immigration system was at all designed to "get the best and brightest". that is just not true. our system was designed to let everyone in. ever read the quote on the statue of liberty?



we need to arrest those who hire illegals. not merely fine them, though they should be fined the amount of taxes that should have been paid. put them in jail, and nail them for the revenue. that will stop it. then we give SS numbers to those immigrating if they have a job. it's just that easy.

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[kzem1]

I agree about the employers 100%. I guess that is about it though. LOL. The President can't make or change law. It is pretty simple. He may have the ability adjust deportations for small specific groups for better use of resources but he does not have the blanket power for 5+ million Illegals and also give them work permits( it is currently illegal for an illegal to work in America) He can't just change that law and give out work permits. SCOTUS will shoot him down for like the 15th time on that. Unfortunately he is smart enough to know that the case will move slow and he will be out of office by the time he is shot down. Unless SCOTUS has an emergency hearing over the multiple states suing over having to give benefits to these people and the financial burden he is throwing on the states to take care of them. Reform our welfare system so Americans have to do those jobs they think are beneth them and below the amount of free crap they get from us. Cut welfare big time!! Secure the border. Then we can talk about if we want 5m people to take American jobs and save businesses $3k per person to hire them instead of Americans. I actually think Obama thinks he can collect all the names of these people and give them pardons on his way out the door. Lawyers have said that would also be Unconstitutional but I doubt it would stop him from trying.

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[flash]

you really need to read up. what the president can or cannot do within the confines of an executive order all depends on the circumstances. while i don't agree with doing it, i find it better than doing nothing, which is what the republicans want to do. unless they are prepared to shoot immigrants on site as they attempt to cross the border, any plan they have to secure it is ridiculous, a complete waste of time and resource, and counter to the ideals this country was built upon. these people should be allowed to immigrate. period. we just need to do it in a manner than makes them responsible tax paying citizens.



these immigrants are not taking american jobs. that's just silly. they are taking jobs we won't do because we are too lazy or proud. the jobs are there, yet we have an unemployment rate. pretty basic.



i think a lot of this stems from the fear the rednecks have that the country is going to the immigrants. well, yes. that's the way it has always been. everyone here is an immigrant or a descendent of one. they just aren't white anymore. they need to get over it. whites (not to be confused with caucasians) are a small percentage of the world population. it's down to about 15% and will be down to below 10% within 30 years. there is no changing that, and putting a finger in the dam is not going to stop it from breaking.



by the way, obama has used the EO a lot less than others:

http://www.foreffectivegov.org/president...-hyperbole

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[kzem1]

It is not the quantity of EO's. It is the substance and the legality. SCOTUS has ruled against him before and will again. I agree it is jobs Americans are too lazy and don't want to do for the pay. BUT, if you reform welfare and stop giving our tax money away to freeloaders as Obama started again with his stimulus package adjustment to the welfare reform act passed by Clinton, people who HAVE to take those jobs or get cut off from welfare.

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[lbpesq]

Yeah, it's those damn freeloading poor people that cause all the problems. Whoever gave them the right to use our air and water? And they even eat our food too! I just don't understand all those lazy ass slobs who choose welfare over $100k per year jobs. And what about polluting our earth? Those poor people who were drilling for oil in the Gulf of Mexico really screwed things up for the eco-system. And FOX has proven that it is poor people leaving their ovens on just so their kids can have heat that causes all the global warming. And I am pretty sure it was poor people who designed the Pontiac Aztec. And they're making me pay more rent. It's only a matter of time until the poor people destroy the pinion gear in my 968. Yeah, let's blame it all on the poor people.



And don't get me started in these immigrants. None of them today have the official validated invitations like our forebearers had when they immigrated to this nation. At least my grandparents had the good sense to be caucasions. Of course we are admittedly Jewish, so I'm not sure I'll get to stay in the Brave New Amerika. But isn't it worth it in the long run if it means getting rid of Darth Obama and the poor people?

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[ds968]

yeah, stop giving my tax money to those poor freeloaders, please give it all to the military contractors ( and in the 1000 X amounts vs the money allocated for the poor ) so they can squander trillions of dollars on equipment that's either obsolete and scrapped by the military by the time it's released ,or, if it is functional for a couple of years it's built at a 300% markup which the government gladly pays.. with my taxes. oh, but i surely don't realize that the $ 100 charge for the bolt home depot sells for $ 5 is what creates jobs for those contractors, so oops " my bad..." <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/glare.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[kzem1]

Cut the hundreds of billions in waste in fraud in the military, Medicaid, Medicare, SNAP, FBI, CIA, EPA, DOJ, DOE, Congress, and just about every other part of our government???? ALL DAY LONG!!!! You could probably cut our $4T government by 25% and not even know it. The politicians(on both sides) keep cutting the "growth rate" in spending and not the actual spending. Gut it off the top!!! Hand up to the working poor trying to make a life and a move up?? ALL DAY LONG!!! Hand outs to the tens of millions sitting on their ass doing nothing because Obama took the work provision out of the Welfare Reform Act?? CUT THEM OFF!!! Comparing immigration and the country today to 100 years ago is a joke. The world and the nation is much different now. We are either a country of laws with borders or we are not. I like to think we are. At least we were before Obama.

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[flash]

cut the military altogether. who needs it? if we stopped trying to chase oil everywhere in the world, and stayed home where we belong, we would have no need. however, the right wingers depend on that income. defense spending is not limited to just the military. all of the support structure and military contractors would be out of work. they keep that machine running just to line pockets. i was a part of it for a long time. i know just how much is wasted in the "private sector".



people really need to stop listening to fox news and rush lameass. illegal immigration was much worse before obama. in fact, it was worst during bush. it has fallen dramatically during obama, and its biggest drop in history.

   

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[ds968]

The government has always been "broken" , colossal waste of our tax dollars has always been the norm regardless of the party controlling Congress or who the president is. The only thing that varies is the degree to which that waste happens, and to what programs ( or pork bellies ) it's allocated . Yup, taking the work provision out of welfare is absurd. I'm not a fan of Obama, he's clearly a narcissist and does not appear to take the time to think things through in term of their practicality. However, I'd take him ALL DAY LONG over his predecessor who might have been the biggest idiot ( in the true, and every sense of the word ) to occupy the White House. Maybe this country will be wise enough to elect a Libertarian / Independent next time, and the same for most of Conressional seats, and eliminate or at least mitigate this partisan bill s*** that's taking everything to hell in a hand basket . Yeah, right, LMAO, like there's any chance in hell that'll ever happen...

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[flash]

heck, if we need to close the borders, then we need to stop those danged canucks. they are worse than the mexicans:



   

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[kzem1]

Present-day countries of origin[edit]



According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the countries of origin for the largest numbers of illegal immigrants are as follows (latest of 2009):[sup][9][/sup]

Country of origin Raw number Percent of total Percent change 2000 to 2009 Mexico 6,650,000 62% +42% El Salvador 530,000 5% +25% Guatemala 480,000 4% +65% Honduras 320,000 3% +95% Philippines 270,000 2% +33% India 200,000 2% +64% Korea 200,000 2% +14% Ecuador 170,000 2% +55% Brazil 150,000 1% +49% China 120,000 1% −37% Other 1,650,000 15% −17%

The Urban Institute also estimates "between 65,000 and 75,000 Canadians currently live illegally in the United States."[sup][26][/sup]







[sup][/sup]This is the most recent that I could find but comparing 800k to 11m is not even close. I am not a real Bush fan either but I would take him over the Socialist/Progressive Obama all day long. At least he respects our country and those that defend it with their lives every day.

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[flash]

lol - and just where would they get their numbers and why?



lets try some real immigration studies. there is a whole bunch or real data out there. i think you will find that we have a lot fewer immigrants now than before obama. the fact is that we don't have the problem the right wing media would want you to believe. they just need to keep feeding the machine and load us up with more military. they want to bring in the guard, lock down the borders with guns, and do everything to keep the budgets high.



the fact of the matter is that until 1875 there were no controls at all. it wasn't until some tight ass people decided that the chinese were undesirable that we started doing anything.



the country is founded on immigrants, and has always been touted as the melting pot. that is what our soldiers are supposed to be defending. the men in uniform should be ashamed of what we are doing lately. i am ashamed of them. they should be standing up against what we are doing, and refuse to go over there. ours is not the country of unnatural selection. the idea that we should limit immigration, rather than regulate it, is narrow minded and short sighted. this is a great opportunity to improve our workforce and increase our tax base. i am stunned that the right wingers are missing that. here is a chance for big business to once again abuse the little guy. how can they miss out on that?



we are in such a pile of crap these days because we have lost our way. we keep sticking our nose where it doesn't belong, all for the sake of protecting our machine. the towers would still be standing were it not for that arrogance. even if we used the military to protect the borders, rather than raid other countries, we would not have the issues we have now. instead, we just keep feeding the machine, keep building it up, and only exacerbate the problem. we have the resources to feed everyone here, give them all health care, and improve everyone's living condition. instead, we choose to spend it on invading other countries, starting wars we cannot win, and then blaming it on the liberals when the bill comes due.



the immigrants are not our problem. they are an asset the potential of which we do not fully realize, because we are too busy being stupid.

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[Langley968]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1417791684' post='164247']

heck, if we need to close the borders, then we need to stop those danged canucks. they are worse than the mexicans:



[/quote]



"Worse that the Mexicans"?



My fellow canadians go down either to:

i) buy up cheap real estate, because we have disposable income

ii) fill jobs that require a certain level of certification, which for some strange reason the American educational system is unable to fill (doctors, nurses, computer related services...)

(well... maybe a few go down there to be "beach bums" - not sure)



STOP stealing our doctors and nurses!

On second though... we are doing the same by bringing in a LOT of doctors from South Africa...

OK, forget it...it's OK. People should be allowed to go wherever they want, as long as they get there "legally".

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[kzem1]

I guess under your plan we should have left Hitler alone. I don't stand with that. We should defend freedom whenever possible and not let Holocausts, like the one going on right now with ISIS, stand. We should be on the ground decimating those people. The numbers are from the US Census. Your numbers are the TOTAL number of Canadians they believe are in America. Not the number that cross a year. 11m to 800k is not even a comparison. The towers would be standing of it was not for the Muslim Terrorists that hate America, and every other non-Muslim in the world, and wants to kill us all in the name of Allah. It has been that way for them for centuries. We need to expand the tax base but cutting off the free crap for freeloaders and force them to work to subsidize their lives rather than live completely off us. There are 18M Americans still out of work due to the Obama economy and a lot of them refuse to take a job that they see as beneath them because they get to collect from us and stay home. The top 10% that are invested in the market are the only ones winning from the Obama economy driven by massive debt increases and "free" printed money. It is entirely fake and as soon as he is gone, or in 2016, it will all come crashing down worse than the .com and housing bubbles. The debt/monetary bubble is MUCH worse.

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[flash]

lol - langley - i was only poking fun. i noticed how many canadian immigrants we have, and that the number was rather large. the absurdity of blocking them was a way to illustrate the absurdity of blocking anyone.



cutting off free loaders does not increase the tax base like increasing the number of taxpayers does. news flash. the freeloaders are mostly white, not illegal immigrants. while i agree that we should get work for the money, the problem is not the illegal immigrants.



muslims do not want to kill us. that's rush lameass. tiny minds like that love to stir up hate. yes, there are a few islamic extremists, and so the right wing nuts want you to think that all muslims must be bad. i'm not surprised though that the hype is so easily accepted. the audience is pretty gullible. they'll latch onto anything so they have something to blame for their own inability to take responsibility for their lives. there are plenty of nutcase psuedo-itellectuals out there though that have started websites to try to tell you that they are out to get you. most of them are rednecks. we should be locking them up for attempting to incite a riot, but we let them go due to the 1st amendment (though it is illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater, and this is not unlike that). if anybody actually took the time to read the koran, they would find that islam is one of the most peaceful religions. christianity has far more death and destruction associated with its followers, yet we don't seem to mind that part.

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[ds968]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1417795452' post='164252']

it wasn't until some tight ass people decided that the chinese were undesirable that we started doing anything.

[/quote]



they became "undesirable" only after they were granted driving licenses and got on our roads.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> what, this is a car forum after all, that remark is perfectly thematic..

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