[firefish]

A friend of mine who is making clear indys for BMWs are thinking about perhaps tooling up clear indys for the ROW 968, encouraged by me.

It will be a 100% perfect repop of the stock ROW indicator but with clear lens. The ribs on the inside of the "glass" etc will all be there. Not absolutely sure about markings on the outside of the glass though. The plastic is PET which means that you can hit a wall doing 100 MPH and take the indys with you to your next 968.

This is not a 993 close-but-no-cigar product! It is an 2 minute swap job with brand new OEM appearance. The only things you'll need are new yellow bulbs (might wanna get a new set of stainless screws too).

The decision has not been made yet as to wether this will become a reality or not. If the interest is large enough it might be. If you would consider this product, please respond to this thread and I'll get back to my friend and hopefully he'll do it.

Price of the finished product isn't set as it depends on interest (and therefor number of kits). We'll also be needing a representative in the US, preferrably a sponsor of this site. For arguments sake let's estimate the price to 200 USD per kit if a dealer in the US is willing to accept a larger batch of indys (at least 25 kits).

Don't hesitate!

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[94SilverCab]

I would be interested!

Jay

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[Anchorman]

Me too.

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[DaveN]

On my list to do this winter but how does that cost compare to Sunset for a pair?

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[flash]

pretty sure that sponsors of this site would only be involved if the lenses are DOT approved - there are way too many states that have light inspections that could bring up issues - seems dumb to me that a lens needs that, but unfortunately it is a reality

even california, which has no light inspections required, can be weird - a number of years ago i got a ticket for having the wrong headlights

good luck though

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[biotechee]

Must resist letting marketing side speak... must resist.... Oh, crap! Who am I kidding?!

Two comments:

1) I think the price is slightly too high for the market niche you are targeting. My personal opinion, and that's all it is, is that your price point should be under $160USD for a pair. And, forgive me for being so bold, but that should include the amber bulbs.

2) Packaging / labels / etc. should state something to the effect of "For off-road use only." At that point, it can be sold by any vendor. No need to lecture me on lawyers and liability- gobs and gobs of products are sold under that guise with no reprecussions for the supplier / vendor.

I would have been seriously interested had I still owned my aventurine coupe. Unfortunately, clears will not look good on my cab in my opinion.

No matter what, if you end up getting them made, I think you will sell quite a few regardless of the final price point.

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[flash]

legality - actually, those kinds of disclaimers do not indemnify vendors - it certainly does not protect them from litigation - i know a lot of people do it, and think it puts them in the clear, but in reality, especially when it comes to safety items, (like lenses, lights, seat belts, etc ) import laws prevail - lenses cannot legally be imported to be sold here in the states without DOT approval - they also cannot be sold here legally without it - you may never get nailed, but one accident that shows that item to be even partially at fault and you're toast

sorry guys - the fruits of being married to an attorney that does international import work

he would be much better off selling them directly - that then puts the liability square on the buyer

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[flash]

sort of off-topic - if somebody can locate yellow fog light lenses, please let me know

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[rustech]

Jim, I agree 100%....(and I would also be in @ $160, not $200)

Bob, start a new thread. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif[/img]

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[Anchorman]

I agree that, whatever price this ends up at - if it happens - the amber bulbs should be included. This should be a total "plug-and-play" swap.

Switching to the off-topic topic...why would you want yellow fog lenses? They've been proven to be less effective than properly-aimed "white" beams - and, of course, your driving lights would also go yellow.

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[mikeo]

I'm interested. Bulbs or no bulbs. Gray market, black market, I don't care. As long as they fit and look good.

Flash, are you seriously worried about a lense inspection? Are they going to throw you in the slammer or what [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

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[flash]

hopefully shedding a little light on the off-topic (couldn't help myself):

if we were talking about headlights, perhaps white is better for most people - there is a long standing debate, but i think it has more to do with manufacturing cost than human visibility issues

but we are talking about fog lights

our eyes are very limited in the spectrum of light it sees best - the human eye sees yellow and green much better than other colors - longer wavelength light (yellow) scatters differently and less than shorter wavelength light (blue) - varying wavelengths gives better definition - adding yellow light is far more effective than adding white light, especially at picking up peripheral objects - it's not a reflection issue as much as a scattering one - granted that any "filter" in front of the light cuts down on its penetrating power, but power isn't everything - too much light can be as much of a problem as not enough

the key is in providing light more tuned to the rods than the cones - rods are for night vision cones are for day vision

we have about 6 to 7 million cones, red (64%), green (32%) and blue (2%) - the blue cones are the most sensitive, but we have the fewest - this is why blue light at night is "blinding" - the cones are responsible for all high resolution vision, but rely on eye movement to keep the light from falling on the fovea centralis, where the bulk of the cones reside - we tend not to move our eyes as much at night, making this particularly complicated

we have about 120 million rods - the rods don't see color but are excellent at peripheral vision - they are also shifted toward shorter wavelength light than the cones - this is why as it becomes dark, it is easier to see green than red - they are also much slower to react than the cones, and peak sharply in response to blue light, taking as much as a half hour to attain optimal night vision, which is why bright headlights temporarily "blind" you at night - this is why yellow light works better than higher wavelength light at night

consequently yellow light makes for a better fog light, and probably a better headlight too

rods also don't see red - this is also why instrument clusters are better red for night vision than any other color - anything shorter in wavelength only detracts from the eye's ability to distinguish other objects at night

there is a 400 page study on headlight color, brightness and glare that the government has available to you - very dry but very informative

as for lens inspection, talk to the guys in states that go through this - they can't register their cars if their lights aren't aimed right, the right type, and fully functional - my ticket was $180 is 1992 for having non-DOT headlights - we don't have inspections here, but the cop was pissed off and nailed me for it

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[biotechee]

<!--quoteo(post=78251:date=Aug 19 2009, 08:51 PM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Aug 19 2009, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->our eyes are very limited in the spectrum of light it sees best - the human eye sees yellow and green much better than other colors<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Must be why speed yellow cabs look the best! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

Sorry - couldn't resist.

As for light inspections, PA inspections are all private - either through a dealership or an authorized shop (independent, speed shop, brake place, etc.). These guys and most dealerships don't care as long as the car is safe. I could tell stories.... I also do not see PA changing that and turning to state-run inspections. Besides, we're not even a state.... We're special!

If I were in a position to get these clear indicators, I would not hesitate to install them. I ran clear turn signal lenses on my 1998 318i in PA. They were not DOT-legal/approved/sanctioned. Never once got questioned by the independent or the very well known and prestigious dealership where I love. Over 100K miles with them.

I understand Bob's argument and I think it really pertains to the OP's original pitch to site sponsors.

YMMV

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[Anchorman]

My cones, and my rods, yield.

I'm wondering, though, what happened to the missing cones: red (64%), green (32%) and blue (2%). Must be out there on the road, making sure we don't run into things we're not supposed to.

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[flash]

yes - as a business owner, i would not want the liability of such a thing

hypothetical scenario: some schmuck decides to blame an accident on the lenses sold him claiming it didn't throw out enough color in direct sunlight to let the oncoming car know he was turning and consequently gets slammed into, killing the kid that was in the back seat of the oncoming car and was fighting with his sister over the gameboy and undid his seatbelt to wrestle it away from her, only to get tossed through the windshield on impact

if somebody can sue over a cup of coffee, they can sure sue over a turn signal lens, especially when it isn't legal - trust me - the insurance company will look for any reason not to pay

a buyer may want to risk it, and that is his right - but i can't see a business owner - the profit just isn't there to justify it

better sold directly

missing cones - those DOT guys are constantly leaving them lying around - where do you think we get them for autocrosses?

good catch though - not sure why the numbers don't add up

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[firefish]

I am not sure about the final price as I said. Might be in the 160 range and perhaps include bulbs too. All depends of how big the interest is since it is all about sharing the initial cost of manufacturing the tools. Basically everything comes down to cost. Making a neat cardboard box with fancy logotypes and disclaimer stickers is also a cost and I myself prefer the way RS Barn does it (as far as items bought so far) with a plastic bag and the important stuff only - ie buyer paying for product only.

As for dot approval I am not sure. This guy however makes and sells lenses world wide for beemers and they may have the correct approval. I'll get back to you on that.

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[Johannvb]

I will buy a set, but would also like the correct bulbs to be shipped with the lenses and the screws too.

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[Ryan]

I would be interested in a set.

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[Fox944]

i prefer the OEM Amber ROW lenses. They are classier imo. But more options is always a good thing. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img]

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[flash]

i agree - that is one thing i hate about the japanese cars today - clear lenses - to me, they look so cheap - i think they also make the lines of the car less distinguishable, particularly at the corners - the amber lenses define the corners and make the curves pop

but choices are good - clearly (had to do it) other people like them - it has been something they have been looking for as long as i can remember

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