[bombfactory]

Flash I have to get my car smogged here pretty quick. PO installed RacerX chip at least six years ago. I'll give you my results.



-Austin

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[Cloud9...68]

I also have the RacerX chip; I'll try to dig out my smog test results from piror years. They's always been extremely clean, as far as I can remember. Unfortunately, it's been in my car since I've had it, so I don't have any "before" data.

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[flash]

that's ok - if i can get a sampling, i can see trends - i'd like to get samplings of cars with various chips too, since each company approaches things differently



for example, if a company focuses on timing advance and not fuel, then i would expect the NOX numbers to go up, but the others remain reasonably unchanged



similarly i could expect the airbox to have the same kinds of results, assuming it really does affect the mixture, which indicate severe intake restriction in OEM layout - we already know that the box is quite restrictive, and that flow is dramatically increased - we saw that via a manometer, and also verified it on a road loading dyno (as opposed to an inertia dyno like the dynojet, which won't show what it really does)



if a chip focuses on fuel, i would expect all 3 areas to go up



if there is an AFPR bumping up fuel pressure i would expect all 3 to go up as well



getting a sampling of tests will show trends that might indicate if we have something to worry about or not - these mangled cats worry me - if things are left unchanged, and the car is kept in good running condition, precious metals cats (as opposed to ceramic core ones) are supposed to last the life of the car - i'm not sure what's going on yet

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[bva]

ok, we've got a 1994 that was tested on 2/10/10. odo was at 103,843. car had a weltmeister chip in it when purchased in August 2008. an RSB Stage 1 chip was put in around December 2008.

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[flash]

well, those look great, but no NOX readings?

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[gbarrier]

How many states require the sniff test. Here in NC the test went away some years ago. Now they plug into OBDII cars and do just a "safety inspection" on anything older than 1996.

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[flash]

the new laws make things all up for grabs - whether or not you have to do an inspection will depend on the air quality in your area - it is also going to be determined by grandfathered in limits, like 20 year old cars being exempt in some areas



some areas just don't have enough people to make dirty enough air - some areas still burn coal though, and those will get nailed, even though the population is low

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[Cloud9...68]

In Texas, newer cars get an OBD2 test (no tailpipe readings), while older cars get the tailpipe test.



The only results I could find for my car were from 2006, about three years after the RacerX chip was installed. Like BVA's, mine doesn't show any NOx readings, either. HC at both rpms tested (864 and 2568) was 5 ppm, and CO read 0.00(??). I'm pretty sure all subsequent years' readings were comparable; the car has always been very clean. I think my next inspection is in a couple of months (chances of the car running by then are fairly slim, but we'll see); I'll report the results when I get them.

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[StephenHallman]

I have a very good feeling I will be the first one to be the test subject of this especially considering i'm in California. Still haven't taken it to get smogged. Been far to busy. Next week I will know if the 02 sensor fixed the problem or if its the cat. Exhaust makes a pop sound very very occasionally recently when I let off the gas and rpms fall. I read at the first smog place you need to have $450 in repairs to be exempt for 2 years. But it must be done by an "approved smog repair facility." Like hell I want THEM touching my car. I'll have an update when it's done smogged. I tried looking online for an exhaust. Couldn't find one at all. Not even a used one.

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[flwbyu]

I will go back through my tests here in AZ and see if I can't put them all together.

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[flash]

we did some flow tests and found that the old cat lost a lot of flow - this costs power - immediately after putting on a low mileage OEM cat the throttle response was noticeably improved - we didn't do any full throttle runs to see how much power was gained, but if the part throttle change was any indication, it would probably be significant



upon further research, new OEM cats are supposed to last the life of the car - this standard is 120,000 miles - it is NOT "as long as the car runs" - older cats (pre-OBD2) were not rated that long, and were 100k max, with the mean being at 80k - they were warrantied to 50k, with failures starting as low as 60k - so, it was no surprise to see the 106k cat long past its lifespan, and the 80k cat i have sitting here showing signs of beginning to clog



while an old OEM cat might still pass emissions tests, as those standards are actually pretty low, even here in california, and ridiculously low in some states, it isn't allowing you everything you could have out of the engine - the problem with using a smog test to determine running condition is that it is not realistic - it is a steady state 2 speed test (15 and 25mph) and allows the car to be fully warmed up first - the difference between cold start and hot run is almost 4 times the output of emissions - as long as you have a fully functioning O2 sensor, the DME will correct mixture issues, and generally keep you out of trouble, but it won't help with flow - when that wears out, or is disabled, you will run rich and dramatically shorten the life of the cat, and ultimately the engine if you are on the gas a lot and constantly dumping in fuel



so, as with many other things, the best thing you can do is make sure that everything is in top running condition to ensure the most power you can have for the longest time

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[Cloud9...68]

Interesting (if somewhat sobering) stuff. So those of us who are north of 100K miles can expect some clogging of our cats, and therefore some reduction in the maximum potential power output. Well, it makes sense that any component in a car as old as ours is likely not to be performing the way it was when it was new. That's actually probably a significant understatement. So, for those of us seeking to get every last horsepower out of our engines, it sounds like a new cat (if we can find one) needs to be added to the list of things we need.



I've had several oil analyses done on my car, and they've always shown high levels of fuel dilution in my oil. I've had the injectors cleaned and balanced, got new plugs, rotor, and distributor cap immediately prior to the most recent oil analysis, and my compression numbers are decent, indicating my rings are probably OK. Do you think the age of my cat could be contributing to the relatively high levels of fuel in my oil? The analyst said this is very normal for these engines, so mine wasn't out of line, but it stood out in the analysis. My O2 sensor has about 20,000 miles on it, so I assume it's OK, though I haven't done a blink test in awhile. Thanks.

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[AJG]

This is very interesting, are RS barns cat's compatible with non USA spec cars? My car's approaching 136K miles and I know it has never beeen changed judging from past history. Are there various to choose from?



Andy

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[flash]

high level of fuel dilution are likely due to a rich mixture from a chip, and/or poor compression - as i remember your compression was pretty low, down around 180



i will be looking at the maps of the various chips over the next few weeks



i don't know what cats rs barn is using, or what they do, or if they are compatible



there are only 3 cat companies that make cats certified for this car - one is catco, one is sound control (magnaflow) and i can't remember the third, but i'll get that info on tuesday - still, there is no guarantee that they will pass emissions, as the cats are for a range of cars, and only have to be certified for fit and such, and not for a specific model



as for aftermarket cats and such that are not specifically approved for this car, i cannot speak to how appropriate or effective they are, but you can use a bit of common sense there and assume that tiny won't do much

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[Cloud9...68]

The most recent test had my compression at 185 in three of the cylinders, and 190 in the fourth. I'm going to be replacing the rings as part of my rebuild, and I'm having the valve seats ground. The guy who did my oil analysis said fuel dilution was very common in the water cooled Porsche 4-cylinder engines, although what he considers "high" probably passes as normal for most people, judging by the fact that a different company who I had do an analysis didn't flag fuel dilution as an issue. But in any event, it doesn't sound like fuel dilution could be caused by a clogged cat.

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