[ds968]

As I was driving back from dinner,cruising peacefully on the highway at 65-70 mph with very light traffic ahead I decided to accelerate a bit . The car reacted in a very weird way, it was almost as if it got stuck in place at around 6 k rpm and would not shift gears , so I let off the gas and then tried to accelerate again lightly , but at that point the car was losing power , gradually getting worse and then some very strange noises ( tough to describe what they sounded like - clanking , or bearings going bad, but it wasn't a metal sound, it was more muffled somehow and I could have sworn it was emanating from the drive train under the car..) But no warning lights of any kind came on , yet the car was barely hopping along , and making all that noise so I immediately pulled to the shoulder of the highway . Fortunately I was right near an exit so I took it and managed to park it right about the time when the engine cut off / died on its own . I thought : oh crap it's the timing belt ! Just as I got out of the car I noticed some smoke coming out of the engine which lasted for about 10-15 seconds and that was it. I opened the hood , took the flashlight and started to look for anything obvious . The timing belt appears intact, and perfectly in its proper place around the teeth , at least from what and how much is visible through that tiny view gap. The SC serpentine belt and all the other belts all seem ok. There was no sign of any fluid leaking anywhere around the engine or under it. The oil level and oil color looks fine, the coolant also looks untainted and at its proper level , so hopefully that points to an ok head gasket I guess, but without any warning lights yet with bad noises, gradual loss of power to tne point where the engine died , and the brief smoke coming out of who knows where ( because by the time I popped the hood it was no longer there so no idea from where it came ) who knows what the hell happened ?! Rod bearings ? But if it was that what would cause brief smoke ? What I also found strange though, is when I opened the hood I noticed there was no heat coming from the engine bay even though I had driven the car for at least 30 minutes.. I carefully touched various engine spots and they were barely lukewarm : intake manifold, tne supercharger unit and pipes , the cam cover ..not hot at all. I'd think after half hour of driving all those things would be so hot it would sear the skin on my hands . But that's just my assumption . Either way I have a feeling that whatever it is , it will be very expensive . So I called AAA, they got there within 10 minutes and I had the car towed home . The two truck driver said it's possible the alternator may have failed . I'll tow it to my mechanic next week for the diagnosis and pending bad news .. Ugh, no fun.

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[MCL968]

Curious and interesting symptoms. The condition of the oil and coolant are good news, the smoke is strange, but I wonder what the smoke smelled like, in that an alternator seizing would produce a very different smell. Is it possible you had an injector stick open and flood the engine with fuel? Possible idler pulley for the cam/balance shaft belts? I lost a bearing on one a month or so ago and it sounded like a handful of ball bearings and gravel in a blender.

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[Bulti]

Hopefully it's 'just' the alternator. The engine wasn't hot? Really strange.

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[Rap]

AAA came in 10 minutes. My god that's unbelievable! Good luck with the diagnostics and repair!

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[94SilverCab]

Fingers crossed...

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[ds968]

The smoke did not have a really strong scent, as maybe an electrical wire burning or anything similar might , it was very light color and thin, almost vapor-like but it was smoke, not coolant vapor . At least I'm pretty sure of that. I'm thinking if it was the alternator bearings they would be considerably louder and make a screeching sound maybe .. Also definitely not a " ball bearings in a grinder " sound either, much more muffled but still quite pronounced . Could it be the balance belt broke ? Or a much worse scenario, which I would prefer not to even think about but can't help it ... the variocam pads / chain coming apart ?! ( that assembly is less than four years old so hoping it did not fail this soon .. head gasket is also less than four years old also so that's why I'm doubtful that's the culprit , and besides that would not cause a racket ..) After I saw that the timing belt was intact, and felt relatively safe in doing so, I tried to start the car ( I thought it was highly unlikely I would cause any more damage - hell, I drove it almost a quarter mile with that noise on and engine barely pulling ) by turn would not make any difference ) while it was parked waiting for the truck and it just turned over a few times but the engine would not engage . So I just left it alone and did not attempt that again. So it's definitely engine-related, not transmission related as I temporarily feared when I heard those noises coming from what it seemed under the car and then failure to respond to any acceleration, as it was quickly losing power. By the way, I did not feel any engine vibration or shaking during that brief drive , so if the balance belt snapped would those kind of symptoms be present ? The combination of power loss, peculiar noise, engine eventually dying and brief smoke coming out of a fairly cold engine is so odd .. Like I said, hopefully not the variocam, or rods / rings ..

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[ds968]

This morning's update : blink code is : 1-5 . ( I'll have to look at the list later on ) All lights ( headlights, instrument panel, radio , etc ) fully functional and strong so I tried to start the car just for a second or two max just to see how it reacts , and it it does not do anything at all . Not even a mm rotation, it's as if its's completely dead ..yet the battery clearly has enough power on its own to at least make the damn thing at least seem as if it's attempting to turn. But nothing ! Gotta go to work now, will check in later

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[banditsc]

How does the oil look and the level?

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[PorscheG96]

Sounds like possibly a clutch or dmf failure that took out your timing sensor. Original parts?

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[az968]

Is this the Tip car or the 6 speed? From where you said you first heard the sound under the car, it could be transmission related. Is there a relay with the tip to prevent engine start with a transmission failure?

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[Chris Vais]

My alternator failed earlier this year while I was out on the 880. No noise, the car lost power, engine wouldn't make any RPM above idle and eventually  quit. I got it off the freeway. Tried restarting the car after checking, as you did, to see everything was where it should be under the hood. No fluid leaks. I tried to restart the car couple of times and it started, misfiring, and quickly shut down. I think I may have gotten two or three restarts before the battery dies.

 

Reason for alternator failure, a coolant leak from the coolant line the runs to the throttle body. Water and coolant shorted out the alternator, didn't damage it just caused a dead short so the battery wouldn't charge.

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[ds968]

Oil level is fine, oil color also fine.   It's the TIP so I think that given where the sound seemed to come from, and the rest of the ensuing symptoms, Trevor's theory may be about as plausible as it gets.   We'll see if anything can be seen from the clutch inspection hole.   The flex plate is also less than 5 years old , but not sure they were designed to withstand 300 ft/lbs of torque ( all of it used quite often :glare:  ) the SC produces , for a lifetime .. heck those things failed even in NA cars after ten years or so..  

 

Still want to also look at the variocam / camshafts , chain, etc...     

 

But then again, why the smoke coming out of the engine bay ?  

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[Waylander]

starter motor jammed in and now burnt out

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[az968]

The smoke may have been rising up from the transmission area through the engine compartment. you said you couldn't see where the smoke was coming from with hood down so maybe still from under the car?

 

Blink code 1 -5 is "No Fault" so the blink code is no help.

 

Per the workshop manual on diagnosing the tip, there are several faults that will lock the transmission in 4th gear and subsequent starts only in 2nd and also stall the engine.  Check the transmission ground.

 

Did the tip warning light come on?

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[ds968]

The smoke could have also been rising up from a burned / shorted starter solenoid .. But as far as the starter is concerned if that was the problem ( oh, please, oh please let that be the problem LOL , because I can't think of any cheaper fix ...I can even install those myself ) it's doubtful it would manifest itself in the rattle noise , the gradual loss of power , no response to acceleration , all while driving, and the eventual death of tne engine just stopping on its own.

No tip light came on. No warning light of any kind came on. Tried to start the car in various gears today, not a budge ! No clicking sound you usually hear with a bad starter or symptoms of a low voltage battery, just a refusal to respond at all when the key is past the second position . At least yesterday it turned over for a few rotations, just not starting , but today it's kaput ! Still have plenty battery power though - voltmeter showed 12.8 this morning.

So waiting to check the transmission inspection hole tomorrow for anything obvious , but I have a really bad feeling about this and thinking either bent rods or some cylinder blown or camshafts teeth broken , or some other catastrophic engine failure.

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[Grandpa#3]

Will the engine turn over either way by hand using the front crank shaft bolt? Have you pulled the spark plugs to check if there is a hydro locked cylinder? Please let us know what you find out the real cause of the engine problem.

 

Cheers,

Larry

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[Waylander]

A short to the starter would send the tip ecu in to panic mode, the interesting bit is no cranking so that's where I would start the investigation,


Low voltage to the DME would cause the engine to die


I would definatley check all the power cables to the alternator and starter for shorts, as that's the power flow for the car


Everything passes through the starter solenoid from the alternator to the battery and then the rest of the car

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[flash]

i hadn't thought about what it would to to the tip.  i first thought jammed starter/burnt solenoid, but dismissed it, due to the power loss.  if the tip computer got involved, i suppose that could still be the issue.

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[ds968]

Thanks guys, will check those things out today . Trevor was nice enough to stop by on his way home last evening to check a few other things out ( because in typical manner more often than not with these cars one expects the worst case scenario ) and it turned out to be a lot longer stop than anticipated .. Here is what was eliminated as possible culprits, as they were all deemed to be is in absolute perfect shape : the flex dampener ( used boroscope to look at the entire thing ) , the camshafts, chain, pads - essentially the entire cam / vario assembly . ( and we'll slide open the timing belt cover today to inspect if the belt sits perfectly in place on the entire loop, just as it's apparent from the small inspection port , though I fully expect that should be fine ) Will also hand crank the engine to verify the timing position at TDC , which in combination with what was already investigated should eliminate any and all timing malfunctions . Pulled all the spark plugs out, they're nice and clean, and no excess oil at all in any of the cylinders . We did find a bunch of oil in the intake in the process of taking things apart but that's another issue altogether ( and likely pretty bad news itself ) however, unrelated to the problem at hand. So now will definitely be looking into the starter, and the alternator , and the related cables. Still wondering where all that rattle came from, and again I would have sworn I heard it coming from underneath the car, even towards the back so I thought maybe the differential could have blown, but then after seeing the car was still quite drivable ..well if you can call limping along driving ..I sort of eliminated the rear transmission possibility, at least in my mind . So now that we know the cams were not where the noise came from, the alternator is pretty suspect again. Ugh , will report on the next round of exploration's findings .

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[az968]

So if the battery has voltage but no "clicking" when turning the key, that is often the solenoid as Waylander suggests.  The solenoid appears to be in the circuitry that also powers the TIP ecu so that could explain the transmission doing funny things. Let's hope it is a simple electrical issue.

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