[Scott Collins]

Hey guys-



Looking at a 1997 740IL to replace my Toyota Avalon. Anyone out there drive one when the 68 is cooling down?

Looking for opinions about it while doing some homework before I make a move. Thanks



-Scott

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[gryphon]

Scott.



One data point may not be significant, but I owned a 94 740iL (E32) and it ate me alive in repairs. Check Consumer Reports for a repair history on a 97.



Tom

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[Lonestar968]

We had a 93 750i Alpina for about two years from 2000-2002. It was a luxuriously outfitted "flagship" of a car with all available options including full buffalo leather interior (incredible!!!). So much amazing technology was built into this car that it may have actually "caused" some of the annoying bugs that ultimately made us get rid of it. Automatic suspension lowering feature (activated at something like 90kph) was cool and worked flawlessly.



When everything was working as advertised, it was an amazing ride. It was crazy fast, could pass anything but a gas station, but like gryphon was saying in the previous post, the constant repairs and time spent at the dealer forced us to let it go.



I'm sure BMW solved the ankle-biting issues we had with our model. Do the research on your particular model before you make the financial commitment. There are 7-series forums that could provide alot more help than my humble experience. Check out bimmerforums.com, bmw7resource.co.uk, and edmunds.com.



There are some GREAT deals out there! Good luck and enjoy!!!

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[Cloud9...68]

A guy who used to be in my vanpool had a 740iL, and he was constantly complaining of the terrible reliability. If this were a single data point, I wouldn't be as concerned, but given that his experience is echoed in the previous responses to your post, it looks like reliability might be a real problem with this car. Maybe there are better choices...

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[Scott Collins]

Hey-



These are fantastic comments and very helpful and appreciated! I am doing my homework over a number of sources, including a few BMW forums and general car review sites.



Like you guys have said, 740 owners absolutely love the car when everything is working, but the same owners talk about reliability being a big issue. I am seeing a pattern in reading reviews. Many comments about the car constantly being in the shop while expressing frustration at BMW for having a "flagship" car so prone to problems. Seems like some of the repairs can be at or beyond Porsche $$$ to fix.



I want to move to a bigger sedan than my 2000 Avalon, but I can't work around a replacement being in the shop more than the Toyota, which now has 83K miles on the clock and just had timing belt and water pump replaced. Partly because of this recent work, I feel that it might be time to sell the Toyota while it is still worth fair value. It just seems like the 740 is big and also would be a blast to drive.



An more suggestions? Thanks.



-Scott

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[94SilverCab]

I am in a similar position...here is my short list



Volvo - S40, 60, 80, V40, V50

Lexus - LS anything, but I would love to find an older SC300 with a 6 speed

Mazda Millenia, though I would consider Mazda 6, or Mazda 3 Sport or Rx-8 driven by an adult.



No German cars on my list, one is enough to maintain.

No GM/Ford/Chrysler cars on my list.



Regards,



Jay

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[porsche]

word of caution.....the repair bills on the 740 are going to make your current Toyota bills look like "lunch" money....



No joke. The only way to own any of BMW's 7-series "flag ship" $$$$ eaters is to have one covered by a full BMW Factory Warranty; and the day the warranty expires: SELL!!!! SELL!!! SELL!!!!



Also, you'll become well acquinted with the BMW "loaner" 3-series while your 7-series spends more time at the Dealership than your garage <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mellow.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



If you want to go German, think Mercedes. Meaning a lovingly maintained 1-owner car that is properly inspected by a qualified independent mechanic shop AND body shop. Also, it goes without saying that I'm talking a "real" MB, not the Chryler "bastards" of Dalmier-Chryler POSs.



If you can live with a "mid-sized" model, the inline-6 featured in the E class thru 96-97 was a truly reliable engine until it got axed.



Porsche

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[PorscheDude]

Try bimmerforums for more information.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='porsche' post='65077' date='Jan 4 2009, 04:23 PM']If you want to go German, think Mercedes. Meaning a lovingly maintained 1-owner car that is properly inspected by a qualified independent mechanic shop AND body shop. Also, it goes without saying that I'm talking a "real" MB, not the Chryler "bastards" of Dalmier-Chryler POSs.



If you can live with a "mid-sized" model, the inline-6 featured in the E class thru 96-97 was a truly reliable engine until it got axed.



Porsche[/quote]

Not to argue for the sake of arguing, but according to Consumer Reports, as a company, Mercedes' cars are just about THE most unreliable cars made over the last ten years or so. I've seen articles about the alarming drop-off in quality of this once-proud brand in other magazines as well (Business Week for one, iirc). CU rates their other attributes very highly, but if you check their repair record tables, there's nothing but a see of full black circles. Although, I'm not sure how they rate all the way back to '97-'98, but for as long as I can remember, CUs ratings on Mercedes have been horrid.

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[flash]

agreed - i think they really made a mistake seeking out the lower end market - they further blew it by merging with chysler - that mistake they have now corrected, but perhaps too late



i think porsche is headed the same way



i think car companies should stick to what they do best, and not try to reach all markets - they dilute their marque when they do - mercedes should stick to ultra-luxury sedans - bmw should stick to the mid-sized sport touring sedan - porsche should stick to high performance gt cars

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[rob76turbo]

I have a love - hate relationship with Audi's. The A8 is simply superb, I love it and would not hesistate to buy one if I had a extended warranty in place. Also a lot of Audi dealers will give you a loaner. But....I just got rid of my A3 because or reliability issues (with the AC). I understand your pain. Big German sedans mean big bucks come repair time. Still, I love how they ride, ETC.

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[flash]

if i ever decide to get a big sedan, i think it's going to be a rolls - you can get a nice older one for pennies



we talk about it from time to time, but probably never going to do that though - the denali, the way i have it set up, drives like a big sedan - it also has more room and versatility, and a lot more power than most sedans - i can't see wanting to what seems like step down to a sedan



back to the 740 - i loved the looks of that body style (hate the new one), but everybody i know who had one complained about reliability - maybe it was just too much in the package

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[Chris Vais]

We are well over 110k miles on our second A6 Avant and like the first one we had, this has been an effortless car to own, not outrageously expensive to maintain and it is a great ride, made better with a few suspension upgrades. Does OK in the fuel consumption department as well.



My son has a one year old BMW 535, a leased car with the full factory service package. At 15k miles he has just had 11K in warranty repairs done to the fuel injection system from what the mechanic says was a bad load of gas the required a complex fuel injection system replacement. My impression of BMWs is that they are overly complex and costly to maintain. If your going to buy one, buy or lease a new one and unload it the day before the factory maintenance support ends.



The best BMWs are the 3 series, especially the M3s IMHO.

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[flash]

oddly, the E30 325, and the E46 325 were the most maintenance free cars we've had - the E46 M3 has had a couple of issues, but nothing complicated, and all was covered under the warranty



perhaps the larger platforms just have too much stuff in them now? perhaps it's that engine package?

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' post='65041' date='Jan 4 2009, 07:05 AM']A guy who used to be in my vanpool had a 740iL, and he was constantly complaining of the terrible reliability. If this were a single data point, I wouldn't be as concerned, but given that his experience is echoed in the previous responses to your post, it looks like reliability might be a real problem with this car. M[/quote]



The owner of the company I worked for in the 90's had purchased one new (perhaps in 98). He only kept it for about 8 months and was driving a loaner car more then the 740. There were several issues with the car from day one. One major problem that I recall was with the ABS.



I also recall seeing them priced in the low teens when only 4-5 years old. That type of depreciation in a German car raises a red flag.



[quote name='94SilverCab' post='65064' date='Jan 4 2009, 11:48 AM']I am in a similar position...here is my short list



Volvo - S40, 60, 80, V40, V50

Lexus - LS anything, but I would love to find an older SC300 with a 6 speed

Mazda Millenia, though I would consider Mazda 6, or Mazda 3 Sport or Rx-8 driven by an adult.



Jay[/quote]



WOW. Ive driven or owned almost every car on your list.

Volvo- Drive one then get back to me. I hated the feel of those things. Hard to put my finger on what it was exatcly. Just a boring ride. Perhaps my expectations were higher then they should've been.



Lexus LS. The gadgets will put a smile on your face and the reliability as well. The car looks boring to me but it is adored by the masses.

SC300- Fun but looks dull



Mazda- Millenia and Millenia S - Great handling cars. For there size and considering that there Japanese, I was quite surprised at how well they accelerated and how tight the steering was. You just dont get that with Honda, Toyota, Hyundia, etc. But they are not reliable. After 4 years of ownership I replaced so many parts I felt as if I was rebuilding it. The final straw was the tranny. My buddy had a 6 and experienced the same thing. New starter this month, heater hose the next.



In short. I would get a GS. Better style and quicker then the LS. and doesn't look as dated as the SC.

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[94SilverCab]

Good input...



I bought my wife an S60 last year and absolutely love it! Yes, kind of dull, but this is my "train station" commuter car, and I am leaning toward the wagon if I go the Volvo route.



GS is now on the list.



Jay

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[Scott Collins]

Hey Guys,



This has been a fantastic read, with really great responses to the BMW 740 question. Thanks so much for chiming in. Based on what I am seeing, I'll take a pass on a 740, and at the moment BMW altogether. The 740 is the only sedan model large enough for me, and I have no interest in the BMW SUV models. Just way too many stories about driving loaners...



Maybe I just need to find a big *ss Buick Park Avenue or something and just keep the Avalon. The SUV won't work for me and I can't go mini-van, just can't bring myself to do it. I just can't.....I just can't.....



The search continues...



-Scott

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[PorscheDude]

I have had 5 BMW's in the past and love them. For the most part are pretty easy to work on.

I just picked up a 95 E34 (5 series) wagon for $1300 with 130K miles.

By time I get everything sorted including bring the maintainance up to date, wheels, new Bilsteins and H&R springs I will be into it for less than $4k.

I scored a complete interior with leather heated seats and leather door panels for $500.

They built so many E34 sedans world wide that parts for it generally are dirt cheap and easy to find.



IMHO, Build quality is very good.



I would love to have an E38 and almost bought one, but I needed a wagon for travel and picking up parts.

They made quit a few E38's and used parts are easy to find.



An A8 would be a cool car to own, but I think Audi parts cost more than Mercedes parts.



A few pics of the work in progress.

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[Cloud9...68]

If you want a reliable, well-made large sedan with decent performance, I would recommend either a Lexus LS (pretty much any year - they are just about the most reliable cars on the road, breaking the stigma of the unrelible crap the so-called "flagship" sedans made by BMW, Mercedes, and Audi have garnered), or, maybe an Infiniti M45. The latter has only been made for a few years, starting in 2006, so, according to edmunds.com, you're looking in the high 20's, but they're the top-rated large luxury sedan according to Car & Driver. In this lousy economy, maybe you can get a good deal on one of these if you're patient enough.

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[Matitime968coupe]

I would agree with Cloud. If you want reliable, go for a Lexus LS or Infiniti Q/M45. My parents have owned a few Q's and never had a problem with any of them. Unlike the LS, the Q45 actually has some character and is a better drive, in my opinion. The styling isn't for everyone, however.



For the driver in you, I would say an A8 is a better choice. You can get a newer one with lower mileage than an E38 for the same price. Coming from a variety of Audi's, I personally think that its engines are more reliable than BMW, but its one problem is electrics. From my understand BMW's are no great shakes with its electricals either. My Dad had an E32, and never had a problem with his, but that was through when he sold it in 2002.



Thought about checking out a Mercedes W140? You can get an amazing deal on those, which are actually still quite reliable, especially in 6 cylinder form. They are built like tanks, and if you can find a diesel, it will last even longer. I wouldn't look at any of the sedans newer than this from Benz.



My 2 cents.



Alan

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