[Cloud9...68]

My eyes always glaze over when reading suspension set-up threads - So many variables, so many philosophies and opinions, and so few books on the topic, from the searches that I've done. One book that has gotten good reviews on Amazon is "Competition Car Suspension - A Practical Handbook," by Allan Staniforth. Is anybody here familiar with it, or is there another book on the subject that is worth reading?

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[DaveN]

All I know is that next year when I change to Konis and springs I am going to loose more of my precious hair. I have read and re-read all the posts for the last 5 years and I still don't know what I will do. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif[/img]

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[rhudeboye]

Cloud9...
My eyes always glaze over when reading suspension set-up threads - So many variables, so many philosophies and opinions, and so few books on the topic, from the searches that I've done.

DaveN'
next year when I change to Konis and springs I am going to loose more of my precious hair. I have read and re-read all the posts for the last 5 years and I still don't know what I will do.


It's nice to hear I'm not alone. I take comfort in the fact that no matter what I do it will be an upgrade. I've talked with 2 of my mechanic friends, got Bobs input and reread a few of his older posts. Got some good advice from Pat, Pete and Max as well. But ultimately its my money, my car, my decision.

I think I'm going 225 springs in the front and adding M030 sway bars. Still looking into the sways. still reading. still confused. But definitely getting a clearer picture.

Cloud, My RX7 buddy has that book. He had some valuable input for me as well. Its a good book but suspension seems to be a trial and error thing.

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[firefish]

No, my car is not a track car (only). It's my three season daily driver.

Setting a car up is hard but there are many ways to do it right. If only one way where the correct one, rest assured that it would have been found already.

I sence a difference in approach between you US folks and us Europeans. It seems as we like our spring rates much higher in general than you and judging by how fast our respective cars go it only proves my above made point.

The way I see it it is of little use to invent the wheel all over again. I have in most aspects copied a setup from an all out race 968 that's s***fast and where the driver/owner has a driving style similar to my own. Then I have added a few things on my own making it more me.

I have a tendency of reading too much and taking too many things into consideration. Sometimes it is better to go by feel and, like the Nike slogan, Just Do It!

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[flash]

i have also noted a tendency of people over there to heavily spring cars, well beyond what we find to be fastest here - not sure what that's about, but the cars go faster with a bit less spring than we see a lot of people run, but you have to brace the car first, and use bigger sway bars - the good news is that you also get to use a lot less negative camber when you do all that

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[Fox944]

i can honestly say that the best modification i've done to my car in regards to handling dynamics was the alignment setting. i can thank Flash for that, as i am using one of his recommended settings. A proper alignment is more important then any suspension/chassis upgrade you can do imho. And the faster you go/harder you push your car...the more you notice the diff.

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[Cloud9...68]

Fos,

How much bracing do you have? Flash has stated many times that with the right bracing, you can minimize the amount of negative camber. Thanks.

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[Fox944]

cloud, i'm running M030 front sway, LR rear sway, D1 lower front brace, D1 upper strut brace, weltmeister rear brace.

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[firefish]

You need negative camber to some degree. A car will roll, it has to roll, and we need to compensate for this. Sure enough, the roll can be limited by running huge sways and springs but at some point you start to lose more performance than you gain. No reason to have individual suspension otherwise - or suspension at all for that matter.

This is even more true with a lowered 968. If you look at the geometry you'll se that when you drop it the cg goes down. The "problem" is that the roll center moves further down than the cg and thus making the 968 roll more. The gains of lowering the cg outweighs the negative side effects bit needs to be addressed, partially by increasing neg camber.

In WTCC, SEAT did testing and came to the conclusion that you get NO performance degradation (wear aside) until -6 deg neg camber, only positive effects. Yes, this is slicks we are talking about but they are built about the same way as our street- or r-compound tires so it's not like comparing apples and pears.

The 968 has bad camber compensation in the front, it is the nature of the McP design, and even more so when dropped. The rear is better in that aspect. Therefor you have to run more static neg camber in front than in the rear. For any decent street setup, looks not a factor, I'd say that you need at least -1,5 on front and -1,0 in the rear and those numbers should be increased to -2,0 and -1,5 for the aggressive driver. With r-compund tires you can easily go to -2,5 and -2,0 without seeing excessive wear and when taking it to track those numbers should be -3,5 and -3,0 (but that'll increase uneven wear on the street).

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[flash]

of course you need some negative camber - however, with the lower brace and larger bars it dramatically reduces that need - with the tires (255/35 front 285/30 rear) and swaybars i have (direct mount 31.75mm front and 22.25mm rear), no matter how hard i drive the car, i now cannot use more than 1 degree up front and probably 1.5 degrees rear though i can't get it below 1.9 - granted i don't race the car, but i have tracked it some

there is definitely such a thing as too low, and this car gets there very quickly - the roll center is an issue - i had to bring my car back up a touch and it helped a lot

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[968 GUY]

flash. earlier post mentioned something about chicanes, off camber curves, foot to the floor, car lives near redline, then you say that you don't race, but have tracked the car, so I guess you do this on the street?

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[Cloud9...68]

Some guys are lucky enough to live in areas where you can get away with driving like this. I used to track my car a lot, and am planning to get back to it soon, so I love to drive my car aggressively. But here in Austin, on the street, I start to sweat when I'm 5 mph over any posted speed limit, or anything over 70 mph on the freeways - cops are everywhere, and there just aren't a lot of roads around here where you can drive fast. Ironic for a city that's about to get a permanent Formula One venue. I might as well be Betty White (if you've seen those Snickers commercials) behind the wheel on the street.

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[flash]

lol - tracking and racing are 2 very different things - i have taken the car out on the track a few times, but i have not raced this one

and yes, i do have some back roads around here where i can drive the car hard

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[968 GUY]

I know the diff between tracking and racing
used to live in S.D county, rode many a twisty in sd and orange co.

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[flash]

cool - then you can certainly imagine how and where i might drive the thing the way i do - i'm a bit bummed as i think i missed my opportunity to track the car this summer - already too hot

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[968 GUY]

mighty dangerous for others. buch of dingalings using scenic roads as their personal race track

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[flash]

lol - yup - they should stay off of my road

seriously though, sure we drive hard on empty back roads, but when i really want to push it, i go and rent track time

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