[desmofan]

[quote name='douglas751' post='28500' date='Nov 29 2006, 07:30 AM']I do not know what line of work you are in, but if you are in sales, it may be an issue. A red 968 is pretty flashy for a regular driver.[/quote]



One of the coupes I'm considering is actually red, and I am in sales, but it's wholesale mortgage sales. In other words, I sell mortgage products to mortgage brokers and lenders, so they are also in sales, and are quite "flashy" themselves...lol



No problem there!

As for how the car will perform, I will say that for $20,000 you get a top of the line, really, really nice 968, expect to spend $3000 or so to sort out the minor issues and leaks and you will have a sweet car for the price of your Neighbors new Camry. Expect to spend a couple thousand a year for maintenance and "issues". The car drives great, but stick to 16" wheels for everyday use. The interior is tight, especailly the head room, but leg room is fine. The car is easy to drive in traffic if you have a good clutch and have the motor mounts replaced to tighten up the driveline lash.

This is my thought exactly. For less than a boring econo-box, I can get a beautiful to drive Porsche (headroom is not an issue, 5' 9" tall). I have also considered avoiding suspension and wheel/tire mods, as I would like the car to be less stiff and harsh. Although, the black coupe for sale on this BB certainly looks intriguing!

The hatch back is great!

Perfect for golf clubs and the odd trip home with some nice cherry or walnut for a woodworking project. I would imagine the rear seats would stay folded down all the time.



Again, I really appreciate everyone's comments, both pro and con, and cannot see any reason to not go for this.

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[apex]

I'm delighted with my car as a daily driver...



A note on parts: I just got a quote from sunset of $55(!!) for a spare heater control valve.

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[douglas751]

Joe,



I bought a near mint 1993 with 65,000 miles. I already had (and still have) a 964. The 968 was bought on a whim, and I only kept it for 6 months or so even though I really liked it. It was red, but if it were silver or blue, I would still have it. I do not really have the space for 2 Porsches, but I was hoping to use the 968 as a daily driver. It did not work out for me, but it may for you.



As for the car, these tips may help you.



I spent close to $10,000 on mine after I paid $17,000. I lost a fortune, the new owner made out like a bandit. Here is what I fixed, even though I did not need to; it would have ran fine. But to have a really sweet driving car, you will need to fix these things as it is a 12-14 year old car.



-Motor Mounts. They will be hard or worn out. The car will stutter and shake when the car starts and idles. These will help but not eliminate the crude feeling (compared to new car).



-Leaks. They leak oil. Even small leaks are expensive to fix. Do you want a leaky car? If not, you will pay. I had some block plugs, lower oil pan gasket and other things fixed that required the front suspension to be removed. I did the shocks at the same time.



-Shocks; they will be worn out, floaty and still harsh over small bumps. That makes the car less fun to drive and makes the interior squeak a lot. To replace the front struts you will also need upper strut mounts. These costs hundreds each for a part that cost $10 to make. Buy regular Bilstiens or Konis.



-Suspension Bushings. Replaced most of those to try to make the car feel newer, more refined. Helped some.



-Transmission / clutch / pinion gear. Try to find a car that does not need any of these items fixed. That will blow the budget. Mine were fine.



-LSD. Stay away from the brown acid. Just kidding. My 968 had LSD and it was awsome on track or on country roads. I do not know what a 968 without drives like.



-Hatch Squeaks, leaks. Mine was pretty good. No leaks, some squeaks. Some are very bad. Hatch is very expensive to replace if broken.



One more thought. Please go drive a VW GTI beffore you buy a 968. I know that they are not apples to apples, more like apples to pears, but I think that if I had $25K or so to play with, the GTI would be my choice over a 968. Nothing against the 968, but a ratty one will be yours for $12,000 or so and require $10k to bring up to snuff, and a nice one could still cost you as mine did. A GTI is ready to go as it is, and is a ton of fun and still practical. Of course it can not handle like a 968, but on the road, in the real world, you would easily stay with a 968 and on bumpy roads or in the rain you would beat one.

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[desmofan]

[quote name='douglas751' post='28507' date='Nov 29 2006, 09:46 AM']Joe,



I bought a near mint 1993 with 65,000 miles. I already had (and still have) a 964. The 968 was bought on a whim, and I only kept it for 6 months or so even though I really liked it. It was red, but if it were silver or blue, I would still have it. I do not really have the space for 2 Porsches, but I was hoping to use the 968 as a daily driver. It did not work out for me, but it may for you.



As for the car, these tips may help you.



I spent close to $10,000 on mine after I paid $17,000. I lost a fortune, the new owner made out like a bandit. Here is what I fixed, even though I did not need to; it would have ran fine. But to have a really sweet driving car, you will need to fix these things as it is a 12-14 year old car.



-Motor Mounts. They will be hard or worn out. The car will stutter and shake when the car starts and idles. These will help but not eliminate the crude feeling (compared to new car).



-Leaks. They leak oil. Even small leaks are expensive to fix. Do you want a leaky car? If not, you will pay. I had some block plugs, lower oil pan gasket and other things fixed that required the front suspension to be removed. I did the shocks at the same time.



-Shocks; they will be worn out, floaty and still harsh over small bumps. That makes the car less fun to drive and makes the interior squeak a lot. To replace the front struts you will also need upper strut mounts. These costs hundreds each for a part that cost $10 to make. Buy regular Bilstiens or Konis.



-Suspension Bushings. Replaced most of those to try to make the car feel newer, more refined. Helped some.



-Transmission / clutch / pinion gear. Try to find a car that does not need any of these items fixed. That will blow the budget. Mine were fine.



-LSD. Stay away from the brown acid. Just kidding. My 968 had LSD and it was awsome on track or on country roads. I do not know what a 968 without drives like.



-Hatch Squeaks, leaks. Mine was pretty good. No leaks, some squeaks. Some are very bad. Hatch is very expensive to replace if broken.



One more thought. Please go drive a VW GTI beffore you buy a 968. I know that they are not apples to apples, more like apples to pears, but I think that if I had $25K or so to play with, the GTI would be my choice over a 968. Nothing against the 968, but a ratty one will be yours for $12,000 or so and require $10k to bring up to snuff, and a nice one could still cost you as mine did. A GTI is ready to go as it is, and is a ton of fun and still practical. Of course it can not handle like a 968, but on the road, in the real world, you would easily stay with a 968 and on bumpy roads or in the rain you would beat one.[/quote]



This si a great synopsis of expected issues, thanks! It's funny you mention the GTI, that's another car I had considered, but haven't done a lot fo searching. As they were cheaper cars to begin with, the few I've seen seem to be fairly rough.

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[douglas751]

I meant a New GTI! The last series was not so great. The Mark 1 GTI are fun, but in the USA they will all be worn out or rusted. A new GTI is a great car.

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[Mark]

Like any used car you take a risk. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[sguy]

Doug, It's nice to see you are still contributing to the forum, even without a 968. When you sold me the car, it was in fantastic shape and reliable, and has remainded so. I have had a wonderful experience with 968 ownership because I bought a car that was in great condition and most everything was taken care of. Doug - don't forget that you also had the brakes totally rebuilt. Since my ownership of nearly six month and 7K miles, including 6 days on the track and 5 autocross events, I've also:

1. put in the 993 DME relay

2. Put in new heater control valve

3. Airbox mod and K&N filter

4. Chip

5. Strut brace

6. M030 swaybars and new bushings <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

7. New set of track tires, Toyo RA-1 replace Michelin cups <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

8. three sets of brake pads <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

9. Hall sensor (on order)

10. Brake proportion valve (to be installed)



If I had not bought a car with little or no issues to attend to, I would not have had the resources for many of the "fun" items listed. The swaybars were a great upgrade to handling and do not make the car at all harsh to drive on the road, but that depends on to what you are comparing it. I would have perferred a different color car, but on my list of attributes, color was well down the list. I haven't added up all this has cost - and I refuse to in case my wife would find out.



Cheers, Stephen (still grinning when driving)

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[douglas751]

[quote name='sguy' post='28521' date='Nov 29 2006, 12:16 PM']Doug, It's nice to see you are still contributing to the forum, even without a 968. When you sold me the car, it was in fantastic shape and reliable, and has remainded so. I have had a wonderful experience with 968 ownership because I bought a car that was in great condition and most everything was taken care of. Doug - don't forget that you also had the brakes totally rebuilt. Since my ownership of nearly six month and 7K miles, including 6 days on the track and 5 autocross events, I've also:

1. put in the 993 DME relay

2. Put in new heater control valve

3. Airbox mod and K&N filter

4. Chip

5. Strut brace

6. M030 swaybars and new bushings <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

7. New set of track tires, Toyo RA-1 replace Michelin cups <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

8. three sets of brake pads <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

9. Hall sensor (on order)

10. Brake proportion valve (to be installed)



If I had not bought a car with little or no issues to attend to, I would not have had the resources for many of the "fun" items listed. The swaybars were a great upgrade to handling and do not make the car at all harsh to drive on the road, but that depends on to what you are comparing it. I would have perferred a different color car, but on my list of attributes, color was well down the list. I haven't added up all this has cost - and I refuse to in case my wife would find out.



Cheers, Stephen (still grinning when driving)[/quote]



Stephen,



Glad you are having fun with the car. When I fixed those issues, I took a more or less cost no object apporach. I wanted the car to feel like new.



I wrecked my 964 on the track this summer. I had track insurance, and they paid-out for part of the estimated costs for the repair. The damage was pretty severe, the car was twisted badly. In the end, I decided to sell the car as it was to a Porsche scrap yard, and that combined with the insuurace payout helped to buy another car. That car is a 1989 C4 that was located in Seattle. I bought the car and drove it back to Detroit. I spent the night in Spokane and picked up some winter tires at Alton's before going oveer the pass. I am glad that I did. It was a nice trip, but planned quickly and I had no time to stop to visit you or I would have.



Anyhow, glad to hear from you, I hope that the car keeps running well for you and that you ejoy it.



Have a nice Holiday!

-Doug

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[apex]

Good thread - thanks for the interesting reading. GTI? well... no... not for me. You have to love your porsche for this to work out. Or to be "delightful" as I think I said above.



With my car I've had to



- track down very annoying electrical problems involving the interior lights and alarm

- replace the a-arms, both sides, caster bearings, struts and shocks

- replaced both headlights 'cause the interiors of the originals were yellowed

- new rubber seals at doors and hatch

- painted out those stone chips - still some wheel rash from the PO I haven't tackled yet

- new catylitic convertor

- new transmission, practically: pinions, LSD, 5+6 gear

- heater control valve

- new steering rack & tie rods

- coupla new relays and such

- vacuum hoses

- misc engine trim and heat shield replacements

- new hydraulic lines

- distributor, plugs, battery, etc

- sunroof gear replacement



and I've still got things to do:



- clutch, in the coming year

- timing chain, belts, rollers coming up, too

- hatch swtich has failed - need to fix that right away.



All this work has been performed by yours truly - except for the gearbox. Love working on the car. The only penalty is time. I don't think half of this would have happened if I had to pay market rates for the work.



J

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[sguy]

Doug,

Sorry to hear about your 964 wreck. I know you really liked the car to give up the 968 and I hope you were not hurt. If you are OK with it, give us some details about what happened at the track, especially if it might help someone avoid such a problem in the future. Your misshap also is a good example of having insurance for those situations. Glad to hear you're back inro a Porsche. Seattle is a good location to buy a car - no salt/rust issues, although they had snow this week (very unusual).



Cheers,

Stephen

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[Apex Rex]

I recently picked up a high-mileage 968 to use as a DD and track car. I've owned the car for about a month, and love every minute of it. Even though getting in and out of the car is a little tricky now with a set of Kirkey seats in it now. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



I'll be freshening up some things over the winter to get the car set-up to use at the track next season. Good shocks/struts, front M030 bar to match the current M030 rear, an extra set of 16's for R-comps, some track pads, and a good alignment.



I'll be doing some more research as to see what else I can do to stiffen up some of the suspension and drivetrain. I love this site for all of the info and knowledge that is present here!



It also doesn't hurt that I have an amazing independant shop roughly 20 minutes away from my house either.

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[coloradocab]

I've had two 968s as DDs. The cab (yep, could even fit two sets of clubs in its trunk with no prob) was lots of fun for several years, then more recently, the coupe has been lots of fun as a DD. Cavernous storage - have put so much stuff in there! I echo others' comments on the level of maintenance required, but it's so worth it.



If you'll be doing a lot of driving in traffic, you might consider a tip. A bit of a hit performance-wise, but my left leg appreciates it.

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[ether_joe]

[quote name='apex' post='28506' date='Nov 29 2006, 06:43 AM']I'm delighted with my car as a daily driver...



A note on parts: I just got a quote from sunset of $55(!!) for a spare heater control valve.[/quote]



there's a cheaper one. . . search here or on 968.net for 'heater control valve' and there's an Audi part number. I think I paid like $20 or $25 for mine.



Better still - the 'things every 968 owner must read' thread on this board has the specifics.





re douglas751's post on 17K + 10K maintenance, experiences vary. In February of this year I paid $12K for my car, with LSD and 7-8/10 condition and 75K miles. So there *are* good deals out there.



I've since put ~15K on the car, and the biggest surprise maintenance issue has been new clutch and flywheel to the tune of $1000. This was partially my fault as I smoked the clutch on a steep San Francisco hill a few days before. . . so I don't blame the car.



Other than that, just a long list of regular and preventative maintenance, nothing special for a sporty German car.

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[perbal]

I've had my DD for two years. Now have 125K on it. Minimum of $2,000 a year is to be expected, but by spending more for a car which has been lovingly maintained, you'll avoid big bills. And nothing can beat the smile each time you drive it. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Perbal

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[SILVY968]

Couldn't agree more with Perbal on both the money and the driving pleasure.

Brian

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