[SuicideHz]

I own a 1994 968 that I've just started trying to sell. Here it is by the way--> Autotrader link



I am the third owner and called the dealer that imported the car at lunch today. I was told that they would need a copy of my driver's license and the VIN to do a history check. The service guy called me back and said my license doesn't match the name on the last service record so he can't help me. The last time it was in that shop (or in a Porsche shop?) was October of 2001 with 55k miles on it. That must have been the original owner. The guy before us had it maybe a year before it outgrew his garage. I think it was in for a pre purchase inspection or something cheap...



The service guy tells me to get out my book and look in there for the service history. Otherwise, he can't help me because it would be an invasion of privacy.



WTF?!?!?!? I could see it being an invasion of privacy if YOU tried to take MY VIN off of autotrader and wanted to look it up, but it's my f*cking car! He won't even give me that info if I bring him the title!!!



Sounds to me like Porsche has a rule set in place so they can keep the market alive on their finicky used cars. I look at it this way, if I were to take the car in to a dealer for an oil change and they tell me the car will explode in 500 miles, they are only ensuring that I can take and resell a possible lemon automobile and NOT have to disclose any info.



Maybe this is good for people who want to hide s***.



I don't. I just want the records.



It's got 79,800 miles and I don't know when the timing belt, etc. was done. It HAD to have been done at some point in time, but I don't know when. It wasn't done in the 4 or so years we've had it because we've put very few miles on it.



What do I do?



BTW- the service person was quick to tell me that if I were to bring it in for service, they'd be able to disclose records to me becuase they'd have proof I was the owner. I'm sure that's not what he meant, but he said it...

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[968rz]

NO, its not Porsche, I have had other model dealers say the same to me, the service reports DO have personal info in them like phone, addie.......

I dont know about you but I dont want any Tom Dick and Harry knowing my shiznit unless I say so <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[SuicideHz]

[quote name='968rz' date='Jul 18 2006, 06:05 PM']NO, its not Porsche, I have had other model dealers say the same to me, the service reports  DO have personal info in them like phone, addie.......

I dont know about you but I dont want any Tom Dick and Harry knowing my shiznit unless I say so <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

[right][post="24230"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



But I would think with the modern computer, they could print out a list of all of the services that the car has been in for without printing who the owner was or who paid the darn bill. It's not like when they give you a bill for work they do on your car they include the name of the guy who did it, every time he stopped and started according to his log book or their hourly rates for various work.



It's a simple database issue. You can have a form that just prints out as a list of dates, work, odometer readings, etc. It doesn't have to list any more than that, or price for that matter.



I would just like to know that something has been done.



So now I'm f*cked because the last owner didn't get all of that info from the first owner and we didn't get it all from him.



If everyone who is going to look at this car is going to demand a scrapbook of service history, there must be a reason. That reason must be these cars are POSs and have to have the service, right? This beautiful car I'm driving around is going to be labeled a POS by everyone but me. It will cause me to have to keep it and there goes any sort of market for these cars.

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[Mark]

It's really not that big of a deal, one of my cars has every record and the other does not. As for it being a simple database issue with a form , you are correct bit since the dealerships don't make money off of that they aren't going to pay the software company to do that.



Did you at least ask if they had done the blets and if so when? You could also try faxing the title to show you now own the car and are just trying to get some history.

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[flash]

while it sucks that you can't get that info (greasing the guy would probably work though), at 4 years, you're really almost due for belts anyway, regardless of mileage - i'd just do it and move on

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[SuicideHz]

[quote name='flash' date='Jul 18 2006, 07:34 PM']while it sucks that you can't get that info (greasing the guy would probably work though), at 4 years, you're really almost due for belts anyway, regardless of mileage - i'd just do it and move on

[right][post="24243"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





My father's been the true owner for the last 4 years actually. He recently gave it to me to make room for his 1993 928 GTS and new truck...



He wants me to sell it and buy a better, more reliable car for myself as my old cherokee is on it's last leg.



He set aside money to do the belts and regular maintenance when he bought it, but got an optic nerve infection of some sort and for 2 years, never drove it and therefore never did the work. He tells me to try and sell it for less without getting the work done but if it's going to be a deal breaker, he'll pay for the work to be done and just insist I ask more for the car.



I'm in the process of trying to convince him it needs to be done regardless and that some average schmoe won't walk along and say "hey, that's a great option. I'd rather pay less and try and have the work done cheaper myself..."



What do you think?



This damn car is beautiful. 17" factory wheels, some other upgrades including premium sound which is very nice and literally zero rockchips on the hood but a few on the side rocker panels.



I've even got the net/strap carrying thing for the roof, the heavy plastic bag for the tire when doing a change, the gloves, the complete toolkit with towhook and other goofy stuff and the compressor with all three needles aside from the standard for the tire...

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[flash]

i think offering the "dual deal" is a good idea - get firm numbers on the job being done, let the potential buyer know where it would be done, and let them decide - at that point though, you need to be firm on your price, because you could fall into the "cumulative discount" scenario, and get screwed

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[SuicideHz]

[quote name='flash' date='Jul 18 2006, 09:01 PM']i think offering the "dual deal" is a good idea - get firm numbers on the job being done, let the potential buyer know where it would be done, and let them decide - at that point though, you need to be firm on your price, because you could fall into the "cumulative discount" scenario, and get screwed

[right][post="24251"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



cumulative discount? Is that where someone plans on negotiating with you on your price quite a bit and THEN tries to add in the discount of the repairs/work?



My reasoning for wanting to do the work ahead of time is there will always be a doubt in your head when looking at a 79,800 mile 968 as to whether or not the required maintenance (belts) have been done and even though you could always pay to have it done yourself after a purchase, you don't know for certain that the mechanics won't find other problems inside the engine when the open it up to do the belts.



If the belts are done by me, now, at 79,800 miles, sure it might be late (we don't know because we can't get the records) but once done we'll know that the work went well and there was nothing else to find out later, right?

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[ether_joe]

beautiful car BTW



I think that's the first black coupe I've see with cup 2's ('cup 1's' and twists I've seen, 16's of course but no cup 2's.) I like em.



why are you selling? Stick around and be fanatical like the rest of us <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[RPM]

Interesting question. I wonder if impending scheduled maintenance should impact the asking price. Certainly if the car required repairs that should be factored into the asking price, but scheduled maintenance? I would think it should make the car more desirable and perhaps easier to sell to an informed buyer - but I don't think an impending timing belt change should lower the initial asking price. Value is based on the car as currently presented, and nothing more.



I bought my car just after it had a major service (60k + belts done at 57k) and that was certainly part of the reason I chose the car and did not quibble much about the price. But I am not sure that the car would have automatically been worth less if the 60k had not been done.



Don't get me wrong - if I were buying a car that was due for scheduled services it would definitely be part of my negotiating strategy. I just don't think it automatically reduces the value of a car in good running condition.

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[SuicideHz]

So what you are saying Ralph is that I'm probably being silly and the most likely reason is I'm too used to people mentioning repairs and maintenance when considering buying a used Porsche? I guess reading excellence and the letters asking about purchasing used cars as well as what I've read here gives me the impression that the selling price of these cars should reflect all of that.



I guess I mistakenly always also add that into the overall condition of the car, as if having all of the maintenance kept current would make it fall under NADA's or KBB's "excellent" category, having some current would be "good" and so forth.



I've just got a skewed outlook on the way you figure value, huh?



What do you guys think the value should be assuming it will need to be taken into a dealer and have the belts done and everything looked at since I may not be able to get any history?



Those are the factory wheels, I found the option code for the 17" wheels as well as:



colored center caps,

the tire choice option,

am/fm tape

cd changer

premium sound (10 speaker)

dual power mirrors

power driver's seat

cruise control

coin tray



I don't remember them all- there were about 15 or so...



One of them I could not find anywhere.



Like I said before, the toolkit is complete, airpump completely complete, removable top net, tire bag, gloves and cd changer cassette storage box is there (but that's a little dusty.)



There are NO rock chips that I can find on the hood or front fenders. The front bumper has itsby bitsy nicks or whatever you want to call it from bugs or rocks or something- no paint missing, just tiny scratches here and there.



The side rocker panel things have a little wear to them- they are the rough orange peel type rock resistant paint but have a good amount of sand/cinder marks along the undersides. In Indiana, it's common for the roads to have a lot of cinders or fine black gravel in the spring, left over from winter. I'm very close to Chicago <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> The only real rock chip I can think of is about 2mmx3mm behind the fuel filler door and is unfilled. Maybe I should fill it? I don't know how it got there, it's probably not a rock chip and caused by something else.



There are NO dents or dings except for 3 on the roof- not the removable portion. When my dad had first bought it, we took it to Rizza Porsche in Orland Park for an open house and along with the usual vendors, there was a dent specialist. I think my dad paid him about $150 and he went over the whole car. He removed one tiny crease on the passenger door along with 12 or so other small dings- no paint was damaged. But now there's a shallow but somewhat large one on the passenger side behind the removable top. I'm thinking someone slapped it outside the office on day- using their fist. There are two tiny ones on the driver's side in front of the removable portion that look like they were caused by hail.



My dad kept it waxed and actually waxed it more than he drove it. I removed all of the wax this spring and went over it 5 times with Zaino polish. It was well worth it.



I performed the airbox mod and installed speaker ports and the car has a chip- an old weltmeister or autothority that my dad had bought awhile back. It has a K&N filter in the airbox.



I also have the Bulldog installed and the trunk pop as well. I bought 968 engineering's front grill insert- black mesh. I wanted to pay him back for really helping me through the trunk pop install...



One of the PO's pulled on the map pocket on the driver's door and broke several mounts for entire SOB. I bought a replacement speaker mount that has all of the screw points intact and have to install that still. The small piece of trim that covers the edge of the carpeted map pocket is missing on that side and I have no idea why or how to replace it. It's not a separate part and the entire assembly is $300!!



I removed the black paint from the tailpipe finisher but it's not that noticeable. It's the straight type, not the rolled type.



I used to own a 1998 prelude that was beautiful. It ran like a bat out of hell but I sold it because I didn't like the payments. I bought a well used cherokee for next to nothing and drove that until now. I'd honestly like to sell this car and look for a super low mileage prelude to own again... I'm putting my fiance through school and paying for our home and everything else. Money is kind of tight and I have an expensive firearms hobby that I can't shake! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[RPM]

Not silly at all, and of course this is just my opinion. It sounds like a nice car that could be described as being in "Good to Excellent" condition with relatively low mileage (>7k per year), probably worth somewhere around $15 to $16k give or take.



I believe that you should list the car for it's correct value as it stands, not discount for the cost of upcoming scheduled maintenance. If someone wants to use that issue as a bargaining chip, that is fair as well. That accounts for the reports that you read of savvy buyers knowing the questions to ask. I am one of those guys that does not talk a lot when selling a car. I will answer every question truthfully, but I will not offer lots of information that may hurt my cause. If a buyer does not ask questions about what the car may need in the future, or looks at the maintenance records and just does not know the car well enough to ask all of the right questions, I am not going to hurt my sale. It is not my job to do a buyer's homework for them!



I just don't think the issue of upcoming maintenance impacts the current value of the car. Now if something were broken, or the clutch was severely worn, etc. that would be a different issue as the car would not be "Good to Excellent."

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[SuicideHz]

Thanks Ralph. The car runs and drives like a bat out of hell, aside from it being a TIPTRONIC!! That was one "option" I forgot to mention. I wish it were manual. I had a manual 85.5 944 and at 125k miles it felt a little more nimble and fun off the start and around corners. But, this 968 will tear it a new one if the engine is moving and it's got RPMs to work with <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



15k to 16k is what I was hoping for. I listed it at $16,50 in the autotrader expecting the first guy to want a $1k discount.



I did fix the rear wiper a month or two ago because it's gear had shifted. My dad thought it was electrical and I'm glad he didn't go playing around...



That coin tray option is to die for!



The cassette holders are even still inside the armrest but the glove box hooks are broken...



I'll get you all more pictures.



2 of the wheels do have a few chips- I know that one front does for sure. The other 3 might be in excellent to good condition.

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[apex]

you learn something every day: I never knew about the "tire bag option". now I want one! looks like a great car. good luck!

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[flash]

the Cup wheels (as opposed to the C2T early wheels) are a plus, and i'd just locate a place the buyer could get those fixed, or fix them yourself - those kinds of things get noticed quickly



as for the belts, i always figure a car's cost based on the first year's cumulative total expense - if belts fell in that year, then to me, it is part of the price fo the car - knowing what i know now, at a known age of 4 years, i would not hesitate to do them before driving it home - frankly, i think you're better off doing them, but giving the buyer the option could be attractive, if the guy is a shadetree mechanic



apex - the tire bag should have been standard equipment - it's just a big plastic bag that came with the tool kit

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[apex]

flash - that's cool - my car never had one... given my recent flat something like this in on my radar...

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[flash]

lol - yeah - cracked me up when i first saw it - found out about its use from a boxster guy who had a flat on an event - pulled out the manual, and it talked about it - a 968 still had to come to the rescue with a compressor though, because the emergency spare was flat - since the tire is too big to fit anywhere, they give you a bag to keep your car clean - that and the white gloves just make me laugh - i get it - and it's cool - i just think it's funny

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[SuicideHz]

I performed a good inspection of the trunk area when doing the pop for the Bulldog.



That net for the roof is kind of silly but is sort of better than sliding your roof across the zippered opening of a bag like the 944s had. The net was in it's unopened bag. I just had to figure out what it was.



The tire bag is just a thick visqueen (sp?) type of plastic. It's a nice open-ended rectangular cube. Nothing special but definitely made for a tire.



The compressor has a cone shaped plastic fill needle for rafts or blow up dolls <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> and a needle for basketballs or volleyballs. I'm not sure what the other small brass thing is for...



I think I'm going to take a picture of the tool kit and photshop in letters or numbers across the tools and post it so you guys can tell me what they all are. There's of course a cheap-o screwdriver, pair of pliers, tow hook, lug socket and lever but there are a few strange items...



Flash- you are saying I ought to either find a place ahead of time the buyer could travel to for refinishing the wheels or do them myself? That seems to be extreme or outright dangerous for me to try myself. It's just a few chips on the front Driver's side.



I think I was using Flash's way of thinking on pricing the car, but it still makes sense with what most of you are saying...



Is there a good, cheaper way to get more growl from the exhaust of the car? Like a deeper burble?



I have no white gloves, they are plastic and in a yellow bag with simple pictures of people doing mechanical work and even cutting vegetables!!



Joe

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[flash]

wheels - while i wasn't really suggesting you do this, there are a couple of guys who have recently fixed their own - i was really saying that getting them done, or having info on a place that could do it, might make the sale easier



growl - rs barn cat-back - direct bolt-on - not sure if it fits your definition of cheap - you could always do the airbox mod, and get more intake growl, though it might mess with someone who was looking for "original"



gloves - that's just plain funny

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[SuicideHz]

Price on the RS barn? $500-$700 would be nice, but I probably wouldn't buy it.



I did the airbox mod. I have a spare lower for "original's" sake. I actually modded the spare and have the OG in a good safe place.

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