[rhudeboye]

I read it all the time but not sure what it means. I thought Driving Event but it’s normally followed by the word event, so thats out.



I don’t even have a good guess. But here a few bad ones;

Dramatic excursion

Drifting Enhanced

And

Downshift extravaganza



<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[prj24149]

Drivers Ed



It's a great experience with in class room and on the track with an instructor.

You learn how to drive on a race track as fast you are comfortable and capable of driving safely.

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[ds968]

add me to the list ... I was going to guess drivers' ed ? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> but that can't be right <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/huh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[prj24149]

Dan, with the set up of your car, I would have thought you have done a DE or even a few DEs

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[ds968]

hey - split second near simultaneous replies, but Paul's posted firts before I could see it. So I guess it IS drivers ed but the track, racing and all around sports car handling version of it.. one of these days I have to take it <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/unsure.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[prj24149]

I haven't done one yet either, but I'm planning on one at VIR in the spring '08.

I just bought a 18mm rear anti-sway bar and need to install it. I bought this on the recommendation of a fellow 968 owner who has done several DEs and he highly recommended it. The stock read bar is 16mm while the MO30 suspension has the 18mm. Holds the curves much better.

list price is $160 but I got this one used at Oklahoma Foreign for $65+$15shipping. Looks fairly easy to install but noting that the mounting bolts also set the camber on the rear so make note of the position and mark the bolts or plan on having the rear realigned after the install.

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[flash]

18 or 19? 968 M030 is 19, but i think there is a 944 version that is 18



watch out for oversteer issues if you don't put the front bar in there to match

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[prj24149]

Bob, The 968 parts Katalog lists the 18mm and 19mm as O30 so I'm not sure when they went from 18 to 19. The front bar stock is a 26.9mm while the O030 is a 30mm. At these thicknesses, does it make much difference in the handling? I'd buy the 30mm front if you think it would greatly improve the handling on a DE track.

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[Anchorman]

I've had the M030 bars installed in front and rear - and, yes, they make a noticeable difference in cornering with no difference in harshness. They, and the strut tower brace, have been the most noted changes of all of the ones I've done.

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[flash]

i think the 944 M030 was 18, but the 968 is definitely 19



i've been playing around with the swaybars lately - keep in mind that all of this is easily masked or altered by other settings and changes in the suspension, so we are only speaking in hypotheticals



the math says there would be a difference between 18 and 19, but the 19 is adjustable (not sure about the 18) so you could possibly end up similar to the 19 on the soft setting



there is a significant difference between the 26.8 and the 30mm - it is immediately noticable



suspension tuning needs to be done like adding an instrument to an orchestra - one thing changes how another works, so you end up making small changes in other areas - it's all a concert and every component plays a part, having a contributory effect on all



swaybars are the tuning device for the suspension - what springs you choose, tires you run, etc all play in determining the right bar size - too big of a bar on too small of a tire or soft a spring, and you end up skating on marbles - to soft a bar with too stiff a spring and the car feels like it wants to roll over on a bump



my suspension is modified to the extent that even the M030 bars were not big enough - i consequently made bigger ones - i am VERY happy now



all that being said, the 968 M030 bars are a nicely balanced upgrade for an otherwise stock, or lightly modified suspension - i would do them together as a pair



if the bar you got is truly an 18mm, i am not sure what you are going to do to balance that - it is very possible that you will have oversteer with the 26.8 and understeer with the 30 - this will likely not be severe, but it will be noticeable at the edge of the envelope - you could probably mitigate it with tire pressure change and alignment spec change



hope that helps

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[rhudeboye]

They should be called ADE's Advanced drivers ed. Makes more of a distinction.



Thanx for the answer.

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[flash]

i always thought it was "driver ed" too, but i think it was jim child that said it was something else, whcih made sense at the time - i am blanking on what it is at the moment though

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[ds968]

driving excited ? ( oh wait, that could be interpreted in a few different ways <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> )

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[Fox944]

Flash,



What do you recommend with my suspension set-up as far as sway bars go.



This is what i'm running now,



-KLA Strut Tower Brace

-RS Barn (Flash) Lower Chassis Brace

-H&R Springs Up Front (1" Drop)

-Koni Yellow Struts (adjustable) Adjusted To Stiffest Setting



-Koni Yellow Shocks (adjustable) Adjusted To Stiffest Setting

-Factory Rear Ride Hieght Adjustment (3/4" Drop)



-Custom Alignment (Corner Balanced)



225/40 18 & 285/30 18 Rubber.



I have stock non-MO30 Sway Bars. I was thinking to upgrade to MO30 units.....although Pete informed me that he will have Sway Bars which are better then MO30 bars in the future...so i was holding off.



The car exibits a touch of understeer in corners, remains neutral through most of the corner, and has a touch of oversteer. The understeer is a tad more then i'd like...most likely due to my tire sizes. However, i havnt driven it with the chassis brace installed yet....maybe that will correct my problem. If it doesnt...perhaps only an upgraded rear sway bar is needed for my set-up..to neutralize the handling.

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[flash]

first off, your front setting is WAY too stiff - i have 300# springs up front (compared to your 190/230) and i only run them about 3/4 stiff - i would not run more than about 1 turn from soft with those springs - that is what is likely creating a lot of your understeer - i imagine right now it has a resistant turn in, and a lot of bump steer



shocks are only to dampen the spring - they are NOT to stiffen the suspension - you get a false sense of stiffness with the konis because of the gas preload - this is not a good thing - if you want it stiffer, get stiffer springs



as for swaybars, i would go with the M030 bars on that setup you have now - the spring rates are not enough to justfiy or work well with anything bigger



i would also get rid of the konis on the rear, and go with a non-gas shock like the HAL - i know a lot of people run the konis, and i have even recommended them before, but that was before i discovered how well a fluid shock works back there - the fluid shock will be a lost less twitchy than the gas shock, resolving some of that bump oversteer that accompaines them, and smoothing out the ride a lot - shocks like the HAL are also a lot more adjustable



a helper spring in the rear would be good too, and rebalance the spring rates ot match your stiffer front springs



at a bare minimum, soften up the setting on the rear konis to at least a half turn from full stiff



it's all like a concert - when everybody plays together, it's great - when somebody is discordant, it's a train wreck



hope that helps

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[Fox944]

Yes, def a big help. Thank You very much. In terms of suspension settings i find that you are one of the most (if the thee most) competent members on this forum.



I'm going to get my hands on a set of MO30 Bars....at that point i will adjust the shocks and soften them up a bit. in the meantime i'll soften up the fronts some and install the chassis brace.....see how that handles for the time being.



You are correct in assuming i have a lot of bump steer as well as a resistant turn in response which leads to understeer during fast/tight corners.



Where can i get helper springs for the rear?

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[flash]

i came up with a fix prototype for the HALs and installed it on ds968's car - he loves it, and loves to talk about it - lol



i hadn't yet made more of the adaptors - i suppose i could knock them out if there was enough interest



other than that, unfortunately i think all the current helper spring shocks are gas, but there are a few out there



in the meantime, soften up those struts and you will find it is much more stable

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[uscarrera]

Any one want to come down to Florida and do a DE, we do them at Sebring International Raceway on the full 12hr course. Talk about fun it takes first timers all day to wipe off the smile.

Rich

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[Jim Child]

[quote name='flash' post='38153' date='Jul 12 2007, 03:21 PM']i always thought it was "driver ed" too, but i think it was jim child that said it was something else, whcih made sense at the time - i am blanking on what it is at the moment though[/quote]





Not me. DE is definitely Drivers Ed. Sometimes they are more accurately referred to as HPDE's which translates to High Performance Drivers Ed.

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[flash]

hmmm - now i get to try to jog my old brain and figure out who it was that said it was something else - it made sense too, which now really bugs me

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