[Cloud9...68]

I'll be anxious to see the result. Color me skeptical, but I can always be swayed by data.

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[Lear35A]

Hah, it's not like I have some test rig to pump out data. Frankly I don't expect anything special in terms of cooling. My driving force was corrosion on my ductile iron sleeves, an issue most 968 engines do not have. I did see corrosion after the first build on these sleeves, and Darton suggested the Evans waterless coolant.

$85 for a couple of gallons of this stuff is unfortunately nothing compared with the rest of the bills, so why not.

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[MB968]

[quote name='Lear35A' timestamp='1361561199' post='139093']

Hah, it's not like I have some test rig to pump out data. Frankly I don't expect anything special in terms of cooling. My driving force was corrosion on my ductile iron sleeves, an issue most 968 engines do not have. I did see corrosion after the first build on these sleeves, and Darton suggested the Evans waterless coolant.

$85 for a couple of gallons of this stuff is unfortunately nothing compared with the rest of the bills, so why not.

[/quote]



Lance, cast iron, and I'm pretty sure ductile (or sometimes called nodular iron due to the spheroidal shape that the graphite is in) has been used for ions for crankcases. Ductile has a modulus usually over 20 million vs 12 million for cast iron. So, nodular was used for higher performance applications where better properties are required. As I recall, it is a little more corrosion prone due to the way the graphite is trapped in the casting. Although you might see some corrosion when tearing one down, I'm not aware that this should be any real issue. Did you have significant issues due to the ductile sleeves, or were you just concerned due to the corrosion that you saw? Is this a race only issue as you can't use anti-freeze for track use. But, surely this would also be an issue for cast/nodular iron v-8s wouldn't it??

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[Lear35A]

My car is a street car. I didn't drive the car enough after the installation of the sleeves to learn anything about anything (other than that sleeves require more piston to wall clearance than the all aluminum stock block). On tear down I just didn't like the corrosion I saw on these sleeves with so little time and so few miles on them. I called Darton who makes the sleeves about it. They suggested the Evans waterless.

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[MB968]

When I had issues with my Vega GT in the 70's I had the alum block sleeved. In the early days of the all aluminum blocks they didn't have all the issues worked out for how to insure the silica would stand proud creating a durable ceramic wear surface. Anyway, sleeving was a common fix. Don't recall there being any real long term issues. And, though I can't be sure, I'm fairly certain the sleeves were a grade of nodular iron.



I suspect Darton is just covering their xxx. It'll be interesting to learn how your experience turns out with Evans waterless.

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[Lear35A]

With just a few miles so far I see nothing special about the waterless coolant. The temps I saw on the gauge were low, but I only ran a few miles and it's cool out. My only beef is that two gallons isn't quite enough to put the coolant level at min in the reservoir. Close but not there. Darned if I'm going to spend 40 bucks for a few ounces to top this thing up. Heck I may just put some regular glycol stuff in there. Or I may just leave it a little low.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='Lear35A' timestamp='1361654224' post='139121']

My only beef is that two gallons isn't quite enough to put the coolant level at min in the reservoir. Close but not there. Darned if I'm going to spend 40 bucks for a few ounces to top this thing up.

[/quote]

Arghh! That is frustrating. Maybe the company will sell you a small "sample" size to allow you to top it up. You can't be the first person this has happened to.

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[DaveN]

i seem to recall in the Jay Leno clip that glycol was a component so you might be ok to top it up with that. I think the main point is "never" use water in the system.

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[lbpesq]

I don't think glycol is in it. The Leno tape says it's completely non-toxic - you can drink it. It also says it can tolerate up to 3% water.

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[DaveN]

You could be right about the glycol, I thought they mentioned the components and I had heard of one of them. Either they talked about it or it was in my reading that there was a concerted effort to remove all water from the system before charging with the new coolant. I drew from this that water was detrimental.

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[flash]

this is one of the reasons i shy away from stuff like this. what it you had a leak on the road? hose clamps get loose. you couldn't add water or anything without losing all that pricey coolant. you would be forced to drag around a bottle of the coolant.

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[Lear35A]

I'm traveling this morning so don't have the Evans bottles in front of me. However I'm pretty sure they say ethylene glycol as the main ingredient. I'm sure I could top it up with straight EG. But that I'd have to buy from some chemical supply company and would cost as much as the Evans.



On another thread there's a mention of the oil that goes in a Rotrex supercharger. That sells for a hundred bucks for about a liter. Now that's a first rate rip off.

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[flash]

if EG is the main component, then that might change what i was saying about everyday use.



rotrex oil is ridiculously expensive. it's very different than any other oil i've ever seen though, so i'm sure there is something pricey about how it is made. still, $99 a liter, plus shipping, is silly. every time i have to buy a bottle, i just cringe.

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[Lear35A]

I seriously doubt there is anything that special about the oil. Turbos are a much more severe application and run fine on Dino oil. Rotrex found some oil that works, has a copacker put it in their bottle and puts a huge margin on it. The American way

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[flash]

while i'm sure that they don't make the oil themselves, if you play with the oil a bit, you'll probably find like i did that it is different than any other oil i've ever seen.



turbos are not more severe. while they get hotter, the gear drive system in the rotrex is very different, and the tolerances are crazy. as an example, they won't rebuild the units, and those who do won't support them. that is why they need this oil. they call it traction fluid, not lubricant. it sure smells different than any other oil i've ever smelled too. nasty stuff. anything you spill it on is permanently ruined.



still, the price is high, though i've paid almost that much for other oils for specific applications. it's not unheard of. the gear oil i used in my diff was $50 a gallon wholesale 10 years ago when gas was $2 a gallon. in relative terms, that would make it about $200 a gallon retail nowadays.

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[lbpesq]

I'd be shocked if ethylene glycol is the main ingredient as the guy in the Leno video specifically talks about ethylene glycol being poisonous and how it will drip in your driveway and wind up killing your cat, dog, or small child, while the Evans it so safe you could drink it and then Leno makes a joke about an expensive drink.

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[flash]

that does sounds at odds with that

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[flash]

found it - it's PG not EG



http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ec.../683_2.pdf

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[DaveN]

At least I'm not crazy about remembering the glycol part. I thought PG was just the good stuff from the hardware store. The only reason people use EG is it is half the price?

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[Lear35A]

They may say PG in the ads, but on the label they say EG. Even more telling is the MSDS. It says >69% ethylene glycol. Here I am pasting from Section 15 - Regulatory Information from the MSDS. You drink it. I'm not.



COMPONENT INFORMATION: ( U.S.A. and Foreign Patents Pending )



00107-21-1 Ethylene Glycol (66 – 70%) **



00057-55-6 Propylene Glycol

-5 Water

- - - - - - Proprietary Corrosion Inhibitor Package <2%







OTOH, the MSDS says the boiling point is 375dF. That's up there.

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