12-07-2009, 05:55 PM
This is a new episode of an old and tired story, and we apologize in advance for even bothering the members with this. It is incredibly distasteful but necessary that certain things be made public. We don't want to whine and cry, and would have preferred to handle this privately, but the proverbial horse is out of the barn, and we now must deal with this publicly. Were it a single comment, we could ignore it. However it is taking on a life of its own, and must be dealt with.
As a result of some very serious abuse slung in the direction of two of the owners of this site, which occurred on another site where the owners of this site have no ability to respond, those members guilty of the abuse have been temporarily put "on a time out" on this site, with access extremely limited, pending the determination by the owners as to what to do on a more permanent basis. They have not been banned. They have not been suspended. No member has been banned since we took over the site. In fact, no member has even been suspended.
We find it abhorrent to have to do something like this. The owners of this site have always been open to criticism, and in fact have learned a lot from it, and have been able to improve the site as a result. Had the comments have been made here, or even made privately directly to us, we could have addressed them and moved on. Unfortunately that did not happen. None of the parties involved have chosen to avail themselves of the multiple methods of dealing with this in an adult and professional manner.
We find it incredibly cowardly and reprehensible to make accusations and defamatory remarks and hide in a venue where they know that no response can be given. Those people refuse to address us directly, and without any real information have made accusations that are totally unfounded, outrageous, and just plain false. They are absolutely incorrect and baseless. We are not inclined to essentially hand rocks to those people to throw at us, and consequently have restricted their access to this site while we figure this out.
Please be clear that this action was extremely limited, and only applies to those who made specific and libelous accusations. There are only 3 people in this group, one of whom many months ago deleted his entire list of posts before we could catch it, irreparably affecting the database. A fourth person requested his membership be deactivated. To be clear, we would never take action against someone for merely expressing an opinion or criticism, and it was only the incredibly egregious actions that prompted this move.
We expect criticism and opinion, and expect opinions to vary from our own frequently. In fact, we encourage such things, and have stated so many times. Nothing worthwhile ever originated in a vacuum. This site has been an ongoing development, as have the products of the owners, and all as a direct result of the thoughts and inputs of the members as expressed here on this site. We value that input highly, and would never take steps to curtail that. That cannot be said of other sites, where members are threatened with being banned for showing support of a vendor who is not a sponsor of that site, and who has been refused permission to become a sponsor.
While varying in degree amongst the owners, we do find it odd that other members here, who see the obvious abuse, do nothing about it. We do not fault them for this, and we certainly cannot force anyone to get involved, but the reality is that if you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem. We absolutely cannot and do not expect anyone to fight our fights for us, and frankly request that you do not. We realize the ramifications of such actions. We are well aware that any comments made in support of the owners of this site, or their products, would likely result in the person being banned from that site. We would not want that to happen, as the site as a whole clearly has value as a resource, even if the 968 section of it does not. However, we feel that we should at least be able to expect a boycott of those who would abuse us like that.
We have always taken the high road, and will continue to do so, and continue to let our actions and products speak for themselves, as they always have in the past. As proof of taking the high road, we continue to allow the vendor, who used our site to promote his product while refusing to become an advertiser, and who originated his own abusive and libelous remarks, to continue to have access to the site, so as to answer questions about his product, just as we said he could.
But, it is time to do something. Enough is enough. Allowing this abuse to continue, especially in the absence of any sense of reality or truth, is only serving to tear the community apart. A house divided cannot stand. Those people guilty of such a thing, and of making such remarks, should at a bare minimum be shunned. This kind of anti-social behavior is not acceptable.
We ask that our members remember that we are a family here. It is that interactive relationship that makes this site great, and allows it to stand clearly head and shoulders above any other. It is the ability of the members to openly express their ideas and thoughts that have resulted in countless new and innovative products for our cars, and have generated hundreds of new friendships. We help each other out. We gather for camaraderie. We rely on each other for support.
If you cannot find it within yourself to step in actively, we completely understand, and in fact would discourage any posting related to this on that site. It would only fuel a fire we would like to see die. Instead we ask merely that our family steer clear of sites that allow such things to go on. Patronizing them does not serve the community. We do not encourage the perpetuation of any further discussion over there. We do not encourage anyone getting into any fights over this. We would prefer to just let the handful of miscreants moan amongst themselves, and ignore them by not frequenting that area.
Thank you for your support, expressed or not.
As a result of some very serious abuse slung in the direction of two of the owners of this site, which occurred on another site where the owners of this site have no ability to respond, those members guilty of the abuse have been temporarily put "on a time out" on this site, with access extremely limited, pending the determination by the owners as to what to do on a more permanent basis. They have not been banned. They have not been suspended. No member has been banned since we took over the site. In fact, no member has even been suspended.
We find it abhorrent to have to do something like this. The owners of this site have always been open to criticism, and in fact have learned a lot from it, and have been able to improve the site as a result. Had the comments have been made here, or even made privately directly to us, we could have addressed them and moved on. Unfortunately that did not happen. None of the parties involved have chosen to avail themselves of the multiple methods of dealing with this in an adult and professional manner.
We find it incredibly cowardly and reprehensible to make accusations and defamatory remarks and hide in a venue where they know that no response can be given. Those people refuse to address us directly, and without any real information have made accusations that are totally unfounded, outrageous, and just plain false. They are absolutely incorrect and baseless. We are not inclined to essentially hand rocks to those people to throw at us, and consequently have restricted their access to this site while we figure this out.
Please be clear that this action was extremely limited, and only applies to those who made specific and libelous accusations. There are only 3 people in this group, one of whom many months ago deleted his entire list of posts before we could catch it, irreparably affecting the database. A fourth person requested his membership be deactivated. To be clear, we would never take action against someone for merely expressing an opinion or criticism, and it was only the incredibly egregious actions that prompted this move.
We expect criticism and opinion, and expect opinions to vary from our own frequently. In fact, we encourage such things, and have stated so many times. Nothing worthwhile ever originated in a vacuum. This site has been an ongoing development, as have the products of the owners, and all as a direct result of the thoughts and inputs of the members as expressed here on this site. We value that input highly, and would never take steps to curtail that. That cannot be said of other sites, where members are threatened with being banned for showing support of a vendor who is not a sponsor of that site, and who has been refused permission to become a sponsor.
While varying in degree amongst the owners, we do find it odd that other members here, who see the obvious abuse, do nothing about it. We do not fault them for this, and we certainly cannot force anyone to get involved, but the reality is that if you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem. We absolutely cannot and do not expect anyone to fight our fights for us, and frankly request that you do not. We realize the ramifications of such actions. We are well aware that any comments made in support of the owners of this site, or their products, would likely result in the person being banned from that site. We would not want that to happen, as the site as a whole clearly has value as a resource, even if the 968 section of it does not. However, we feel that we should at least be able to expect a boycott of those who would abuse us like that.
We have always taken the high road, and will continue to do so, and continue to let our actions and products speak for themselves, as they always have in the past. As proof of taking the high road, we continue to allow the vendor, who used our site to promote his product while refusing to become an advertiser, and who originated his own abusive and libelous remarks, to continue to have access to the site, so as to answer questions about his product, just as we said he could.
But, it is time to do something. Enough is enough. Allowing this abuse to continue, especially in the absence of any sense of reality or truth, is only serving to tear the community apart. A house divided cannot stand. Those people guilty of such a thing, and of making such remarks, should at a bare minimum be shunned. This kind of anti-social behavior is not acceptable.
We ask that our members remember that we are a family here. It is that interactive relationship that makes this site great, and allows it to stand clearly head and shoulders above any other. It is the ability of the members to openly express their ideas and thoughts that have resulted in countless new and innovative products for our cars, and have generated hundreds of new friendships. We help each other out. We gather for camaraderie. We rely on each other for support.
If you cannot find it within yourself to step in actively, we completely understand, and in fact would discourage any posting related to this on that site. It would only fuel a fire we would like to see die. Instead we ask merely that our family steer clear of sites that allow such things to go on. Patronizing them does not serve the community. We do not encourage the perpetuation of any further discussion over there. We do not encourage anyone getting into any fights over this. We would prefer to just let the handful of miscreants moan amongst themselves, and ignore them by not frequenting that area.
Thank you for your support, expressed or not.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2009, 03:35 AM by flash.)
