[flash]

the opinions do matter, but when the effort becomes more than the results justify, i make moves. i do that with everything. i don't hang onto something just because it's there. if it's broken, and i can't fix it, i throw it away.



yes, i do that with relationships too.



in hindsight, in my perfect world, i would just have written a book. this was easier at the time. i never had any interest in the social aspects of the site. i enjoy a number of the members, but i don't enjoy many of the others, and some frustrate me constantly. good with the bad. i am really tired of having to say the same things again and again though. but, as the keeper of the information, i have a responsibility that i cannot shirk, which is to provide as complete an informational resource as is possible.



i would love to have this be read only. it would really make my life easier. perhaps someday i'll pull everything out, and put it in a book, and be done. perhaps i'll just sell the site and say "screw it". i am really tired though of the peanut gallery criticizing me for the manner in how i run the site and provide the information. if they aren't going to take up a gun and stand the wall, so to speak, then i'd rather they just said "thank you" and went on their way.



all this hubbub over a few threads, nothing of consequence lost, and frankly had i not said anything, would probably not ever have been noticed.

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[Paul W]

I guess what I am trying to say is that don't regulate, as I don't really know what this about, but allow people to post. People will sift through it. There will always being varying opinions.....but in the end, less than 1% (and probably less than 0.1%) needs any moderating. Leave it be. Let people know how a search engine works. Make it easier to post pictures to this forum, let us share information. That's it.

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[flash]

normally, that is fine, and people do indeed find their way through things. however, the threads that were altered took a complete turn, and the conversation went from something specifically 968, to something not, and continued on without returning. it would be no different than talking about this, and then changing the subject to talking about knitting. of course the knitting would not belong and should be removed.

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[rxter]

Miss a day...



Netting this discussion out, as I am want to do.



1) Some threads turn into a chat session with no bearing on the original post. Not a problem if the post was silly to begin with, but if it is technical in nature the post becomes polluted with banter.

2) #1 may lead to a reduction in usability of the site for others who are interested in the technical aspect of the post.

3) The problem is a relatively small one taken in totality of all the info/posts on the site

4) There seems to be a clear divide between liberty and control

5) Some wish to see a middle ground



Warning: editorial content ahead.



I found myself agreeing with both the anarchists and the totalitarians. Personally this site has been extremely valuable to me over the past several years, both as a resource (not that I am any good at fixing stuff but it does give me an idea as to whether I am even going to try), and as a place where there are some truly funny bastards. I like the humor as much as the tutorials.



Flash tried a chat room feature with this latest version of the site - nobody came. I think that's a function of the asynchronous nature of our visits - so we chat asynchronously on the posts.



Regarding flashes comments about moderation - the job is a pain. I don't want it and I don't see anyone volunteering.



How about this for a suggestion? If the post is technical in nature - hold the joke/banter until later. I'm as guilty as the next guy, and I'm mostly a libertarian. But I don't want to see this community fall apart over something so trivial. The car will do that for us in a few years without our help - check out the remaining e30 sites . Let's enjoy the ride while it lasts folks.



As for a technical suggestion, can the chat function work like a post - i.e. asynchronously so that whey I log in I can check the technical posts and the latest chat posts as well?



Thank you, and I return you to your discussion.

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[tamathumper]

It's a bit disingenuous to say "It's hard to moderate and nobody else is stepping up."



Yes, moderating a forum of this size is very hard work, I've no doubt. Yet, I've offered several times over the last two years to assist in any way possible, and all of those offers of assistance have been roundly ignored.



So rewrite the rules and moderate as is seen fit, but don't complain it's too much work because "nobody else is stepping up".

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[flash]

i'm drafting Moderator Guidelines now. once those have been finished, i will contact those who have offered help, and see if they can fulfill the duties.



in case nobody is aware, we've tried this before, but the problem has been the inability of the Moderator to react in a timely fashion. basically, in a perfect world, they have to be notified of each and every post in their "patrol area", review them, and take any action needed before anybody can read the post. if they fail to do that, the damage is already done, and it's hard to get the horse back in the barn. it's a huge time commitment, and it essentially means being on alert 24/7 365 days a year.



it's not just about behavior either. it's also about accuracy of content. for that reason, it's hard to find qualified people to manage some areas. there is a lot of bad, incomplete, or out of context information out there. it is our job to sift through that, correct it as we can, and make sure that people are not misled, as they all too often are on other sites.very few posts ever need anything done, but that doesn't mean that they don't need to be reviewed.



this also puts those who would take on the job right in the cross-hairs of those who get their feathers ruffled about being edited. it's a thankless job, that has only criticism and scorn as its reward.



but, i'll get back to the brave souls who are volunteering.

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[AJG]

I've been thinking about this problem of thread hijacking, since I am one of the most guilty m'lud. Anyway, I am not brilliant with or knowledgeable about computers but is it possible to do this:- Someone starts a technical based thread which may or may not have some light humour. Then someone replies technically to help or enlighten. That can be done as we do now. Say someone answers with a humorous aside or just a non informing comment then that could be posted using a new sub thread heading directing that answer away from the main gist of it and subsequent banter would follow that trail. This would leave the main thread intact and garbage free, virtually. This way if someone wilfully unduly burdens the main tech topic with drivel (as I do) then there can be no excuses or hiding place for unreasonable attitudes to threads. Just noticed the "more reply options" at the page bottom, wonder if this is covered already?

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[flash]

not really possible with this software as it stands now. new stuff would have to be written to have the "i'm about to steer this thread off course" button incorporated



a certain amount of humor and diversion is fine. it always has been. when it gets to be a full page or more, it's really annoying to anybody trying to learn anything.



i think we will be fine if people use their head. i'm as guilty as the next guy (or more so) and will do my best to stay on topic. i did pick up another case of wine though, just as a precaution.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

The more reply options just adds options for posting photos and for following the thread, adding emoticons and signatures.

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[Cloud9...68]

AJG -



See my post #21 - great minds think alike (and so do we!), but as Flash says, it apparently isn't feasible at this time.

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[Rap]

It's my humble opinion that we haven beaten this horse to a bloody pulp. We understand the request to use better judgement, so do it. If not as the Clash sing , "should I stay or should I go". Figure it out and decide.

This is a thread I'm all for the moderator to erase every time it comes up. It serves no purpose other than to add fuel to the fire. Let the fire burn out!

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[flash]

yeah - if i am going to spend money to have a custom modification made, i want to do it with a software package we are going to keep. i need to spend some time poking around and find the right package, that is flexible enough, and has the features needed. there may be a package out there now that will work. i should have some time opening up here in the next couple of weeks.



i'm not sure how such a thing would work though. it might be better to have a feature that sent people to a private chat area.



rap - i agree. lol - i'd close it, but then i'd be accused of nazi-like behavior again



that being said, i appreciate the ideas and i'll look into all of them

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