[Cloud9...68]

No, I'm not talking about something exotic and impractical like hydrogen or even natural gas - I'm talking about... Diesel. While I hope things like electric cars and plug-in hybrids will be successful (though I'm very skeptical), I've been reading a lot lately about the amazing new diesel engines being developed and produced by companies like Mercedes, BMW, and VW. The new Jetta TDI, for example, gets 33 mpg city, 40 highway, does zero to sixty in 8.1 sec, is a practical, roomy sedan (no gargantuan battery back or compressed gas fuel tank taking up 3/4 of the trunk), and is clean enough to be legal in all 50 states. And as good as this car, and others like it, is, I just read a preview of Honda's new diesel in Motor Trend, and it sounds like this engine could be a real game changer. They say it revs smoothly and seamlessly to 5000 rpm, and is indistinguishable in its driving characteristics from the best of today's gasoline engines. It will probably get up to 50 mpg to boot, at far less up front cost than a hybrid. Yes, I know, diesel is still stubbornly more expensive than gasoline, which strikes me as insane, as diesel is a much less refined, and therefore, cheaper-to-produce fuel than gasoline. But I'm sure this will equalize as the refineries switch more of their production over to diesel as these cars become more popular. I just hope the American automakers haven't missed the boat yet again on what looks to me like the best alternative out there to the conventional gasoline engine.

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[gryphon]

It's the Federal fuel taxes that make diesel more expensive than gasoline and I don't think we will be seeing any reduction in any kind of taxes during the Obama administration.



Tom

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[banditsc]

The BMW 335d with it's twin turbos does even better, it does the 0-62 in 6 secs, top speed of 155mph and has 428 ft lbs of torque.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='gryphon' post='63894' date='Dec 6 2008, 12:58 PM']It's the Federal fuel taxes that make diesel more expensive than gasoline and I don't think we will be seeing any reduction in any kind of taxes during the Obama administration.



Tom[/quote]

There has to be more to it than that. The price of oil has cratered from its high of $147/barrel to just under $41/barrel today (a drop of about 72%). In the same time frame, gasoline has dropped by about 57%, while diesel has dropped by much less (not sure the exact amount, because it isn't quoted as regularly as the prices of gas and oil, but my guess is that it's fallen less than 40% since its peak in July). Also, the price of diesel rose much faster than the price of gas on the way up. Federal fuel taxes are a constant, so I wouldn't expect that the fact that they are higher on diesel than on gas (and I take your word for it that they are) would be the cause of the higher rate of diesel's price escalation in early to mid 2008, and it's slower fall since the peak. It must be caused by some goofy supply/demand imbalance.



I know one thing - if I were a trucker, I'd be beyond livid. I'm surprised those guys haven't marched on Washington yet. If anyone has a legitimate gripe about anything these days, it's those guys.

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[Ryan]

The price of diesel compared to gas is crazy. I don't know what is going on there.



Honda has a great diesel coming to market as well. It can't get here soon enough.

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[gryphon]

I think there are also some claims that diesel fuel is more expensive because of high demand for heating oil.



Tom

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[SILVY968]

[quote name='gryphon' post='63930' date='Dec 7 2008, 12:25 PM']I think there are also some claims that diesel fuel is more expensive because of high demand for heating oil.



Tom[/quote]

Tom,



Heating oil demand is the same or lower than it has ever been, what ups the demad is the cooler temps/season, but that is anticipated by the suppliers.

I believe that the US has set the clean air standards higher than they were in the past on diesel fuel and that the extra refining/cleaning of the sulfur from diesel has raised the price.

The crude prices have something to do with it, obviously; but it is a free market and the seller can charge whatever the buyer is willing to pay. Then the feds get their added taxes, so whatever fuel we use we will be pushed to just below the "revolt" point by the sellers unless the govt takes over the fuel business; and then we have socialism and watch out!

brian

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[Cloud9...68]

I've also heard that the resons diesel remains so expensive is that the demand by commercial users (such as truckers) hasn't dropped off as much as the demand for gasoline has. But this doesn't make any sense, either, because surely the commercial demand must be much lower now than it was, say, a year ago, because of the slowdown in the economy. The reason remains a mystery, as far as I can tell.

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[flash]

i don't think it's all that big of a mystery - pretty easy to follow the bread crumbs, once you understand that the government has a VERY strong back door influence on oil prices - there are some pretty obvious reasons for the low gas cost right now - don't expect it to last long though



as for deisel, it's yet another "quick fix" to keep up stuck in petroleum based technology - better than what is going on now in some respects, but not the answer



i saw a number of VERY COOL electric cars at the auto show - looking forward to those - they are the answer to the commuter who absolutely has to drive their selfish selves - the downside is that they will put a pretty big dent in the auto industry section of the economy, as there are very few parts to wear out, will not need service like combustion engines, and last a lot longer



regardless, we are planning on getting one ourselves - such a no brainer - just trying to decide which one



wouldn't it be nice if, as a part of any auto bail out, that we require a high percentage of green cars, impose big penalties for gas guzzlers, and impose tighter standards on emissions of those? it has been far too long that we have let the manufacturers dictate to us what they will make based purely on short-sighted economics



we put strings like that on money to other countries - why not to those within our own?

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