[Rap]

Schwarz, whether you are a d or r you can not only disagree with people but respect and like them too. Flash and I are a great example and although I can't speak for him our disagreements on positions mean nothing at the end of the day. While I feel a great pity for those who disagree with me they are still people and 968 owners! Lol sorry couldn't resist! Don't stay off politics just do it with the right thread or the powers that be will arise and swat you down. Again couldn't resist!

Does ISEL buy Tesla's?

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[flash]

william - obviously an electric car is not for all uses. nobody for a minute thinks it should be your only car either. however, 95% of the population (yes, that's a real number) live within 30 miles of their job. almost every electric car can handle that, even with everything turned on.



schwarz - lol - it's because they are so easy to pick on. they have fought every single one of the necessary escalations of clean car standards. economics can no longer be the major factor. we absolutely must bite the bullet, do something temporarily more expensive, and move forward. they need to make it illegal for any car to get less than 30mpg, including trucks and suvs. yes, that will mean less power. so what? as long as we let the corporations dictate what we do, we will never have a future.



the republican party has already said that if they regain power, they will kill any solar plans, and any other alternative energy research. that is a recipe for disaster. we need to develop new clean energy sources. that does not mean new sources of old energy. that does mean that a lot of stuff won't work, and will be lost money. but the light bulb didn't happen on the first attempt either.



as for dems killing credits, they don't kill these kinds of credits. they try to kill the tax loopholes that corporations jump through. we shouldn't let corporations or rich people off the hook. they should pay more than the poor, not less. i'm not saying the dems are perfect. far from it. they can't seem to get the entire party together, no matter what they do. but, the record is clear on who favors the existing sources, and who favors new cleaner ones.



the funny part is, if they were so interested in making money, you would think that they would want to develop the new technology, so we could get off of foreign supplies. in the long run, it will be immensely more profitable. the problem is they don't tend to think long run.

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[flash]

what we really should do, is take the business of oil out of being a for profit business, and make it a non profit public utility. then, we take all that money that was profit, and funnel it into research for new clean energy sources. i'd be willing to bet we would make some real progress then.



never going to happen. politics will always prevail. people are greedy. yada yada.



in the meantime, the tesla (see me bringing it back on topic again?) is a great car, with huge range for an electric car, looks great, is very quiet, costs less to operate, would suit the needs of more than 95% of the public, and is not that expensive, once you factor everything in. seems like a no brainer. if they made a 2 door convertible version, i'd own one.

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[Rap]

Now on this last sentence you and I agree. But of course you are expecting a politician to think long term which is clearly against all of their interests. Why? Politicians are only capable of thinking in the short term because it best suits their purposes, goals, objectives and agenda's. Most public corp's are also constrained by the fiduciary responsibility they have to their shareholders. Frankly as a shareholder I believe that all corps waste money on health care benefits that should and could be returned to me in the form of a dividend or reinvestment in the business. Now that's an extreme thought but just an example of how corps are forced to think. No long term just what will be the ROI, share price and dividend for this year. If they don't the market slaughters them and stockholders lose money

There is a massive building of a natural gas pipeline from Pittsburgh to Phillie which will allow the building of natural gas stations in eastern Pa. The beginning of a great distribution of a cheaper and cleaner energy source. Why are corps doing this? Not because it's the right thing to do but rather because their investment will bring huge financial returns to their shareholders. Oh and to the officers and leaders of the corp too!

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[schwarz968]

Well, just woke to read the thread I missed out on. All great stuff and I enjoyed reading it. Fully agree on all points. Sounds just like the conversations my wife and I have all too often. :-)

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[flash]

yeah - we get some good ones going.



re: pipeline - as long as the gas isn't from fracking, it's fine. fracking is worse than burning coal though



as for corps giving dividends, how about we limit profit and turn the surplus into health care? how about we regulate the hell out of the energy industries and use that to fund new clean energy development?



capitalism doesn't work long term. this little experiment of ours is rapidly falling apart. if we don't do something soon to control the rampant out of control corporations, we will soon live in a society where you get only what is given, and they will be too powerful to overthrow. it is already getting way too much like 1984, with drones, cameras everywhere, companies getting sucked up into megacorporations, and the government being ruled by them.



once again, back to the tesla, the efforts being put forth to put that company out of business are outrageous. they make a great product, which we desperately need, and are making huge strides, in spite of the battles, in coming up with ways to break free of our dependence on fossil fuels.



if i could make that car work for me, i would buy one, if only to support the company. i just don't want a 4 door.

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[MCL968]

The Progressive Alliance in Nevada just released the following concerns about the Tesla battery plant. it seems that what appears to be a benefit might just be another example of pork and politics as usual.



"The special legislative session in Carson City began yesterday and will continue at least through tonight as lawmakers consider a massive, $1.25 billion corporate subsidy package to entice the Tesla battery manufacturing plant to northern Nevada. Whether today’s actions will be an apology for a decision already made behind closed doors, or a real debate, remains to be seen. Both left and right say this deal's bad because taxpayers are going to pick up the bill for a private corporation's shareholders.



Indeed, Good Jobs First has found serious deficiencies in the Governor’s Office of Economic Development report: “Growth induced by Tesla will drive a burden shift…in the absence of revenues from Tesla (which operates tax-free for 10 years), working families’ sales and property tax revenues will have to pick up the slack…Is Nevada paying Tesla what it would have done anyway?”



Given this, the windfall giveaway of $195 million to Tesla for transferable tax credits is hard to swallow. Should low-income Nevadans really help subsidize Tesla’s power costs? Where will Nevada come up with the $43 million to give to the developer for his right of way and to build the new highway? Will Tesla pay prevailing wages?"

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[WJH]

It is amazing to me how I leave this thread for awhile and come back to a lesson on the greatness of socialism and how capitalism sucks. LOL



I really think Tesla should reorganize as a non-profit corporation and only produce cars that the average citizen can afford. As a for profit corporation, with a subsidized product, they only seem concerned about making cars for the wealthier Americans. Let us use the power of the government to force them to produce a cheaper car! If it is cheaper, everyone can then afford one. If everyone could afford one (or be mandated to buy one), energy problem is solved.



See, socialism will work, we just need to give it a chance. We should be more like Venezuela.



On the subject of electric cars, I would consider one, just not this expensive one.

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[Peter B]

We have a Tesla Model-S. I wish we bought the stock instead, March 2013, then bought the car from the profits. This is another story. .



This technology can change the world. Look at the response from BMW, Mercedes, and even Jaguar. More will follow. We bought the car to support the company. Look at who wants them to fail - oil companies. Of the top 10 largest corporation I think 3 or 4 are oil companies (Exxon/Mobile, Shell, ..) and 2 or 3 are car companies (Toyota, GM....). Local dealers hate them too.



Driving the car is addicting. 5 seconds to 60 is faster than the stock 968, in a big 4 door hatchback. Instant power. I think the 5 second quote is under-estimating the speed.



I like the simplicity of the electric car. Batteries - controller/inverter/charging system - electric motor - simple one-gear transmission. Very compact, powerful and reliable (so far). Look at all the systems associated with the gas engine: Ignition, exhaust, cooling, fuel, air-intake, and so on. The electric motor, inverter and "transmission" all fit under the back seat of the Model S and protrude about 10 inches into the trunk, to just behind the rear wheels. The trunk in the hatchback has a deep well of empty space.



They make a roadster Flash!! The roadsters can now be modified to have up to 400 miles of range.

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[Rap]

Yes because socialism has shown it works in so many countries. Flash can you say Marcellus shale. This is Pa. I have environmental concerns. Look up where I live, google pics. Slag heaps, orange rivers from acid mine drainage, underground mine fires- Centralia. Things have changed dramatically since I was a kid. Birds and fish have come back in waterways. Is it fixed or perfect- no. Dramatically better- oh yea. Dare I say it, some of these govt regs and rules have produced this result. Ah grasshopper I must now fall on the sword!

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[flash]

last i heard, they cancelled the little 2 seat roadster, and they don't yet make a roadster version of the model s that i know of.



rap - i never said socialism worked on a large scale. it's great in a small community, but on a large scale, greed and human nature gets in the way.

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[Peter B]

Yes they made a roadster. You can still pick them up used. They are not as refined as the Model S, which isn't terribly refined either. You get a a better ride in a Porsche or a Mercedes.



Roadster does zero to 60 is something like 3.4s. It's based upon a Lotus Elise "roller". My brother-in-law has one and I've driven it. It's very low. Extremely fast.

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[flash]

great looking car with the top off. not so cool with the lid in place. not truly a roadster either, but a targa, which i happen to like.



in the model s though, what we would be looking for is a full convertible. if they did something like the 3 series bmw, it would be cool, though we would prefer a 2 seat version. we could live with the back seats though, as long as it was a 2 door and not a 4 door. not sure i understand why they didn't do a 2 door, but then i also don't understand why porsche hasn't done a 2 door panamera either, given how successful the 928 was.

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[ds968]

I'm not easily frightened. I have driven many cars at their maximum speed potential, including the 968, with no concern for the potential risk of doing so . I have also ridden in quite a few cars at crazy fast paces , with drivers arguably as marginally insane as I am, and although I was slightly more apprehensive in those situations , none managed to make me extremely uncomfortable . Until today : Tesla Model S , P85 ( the top / highest performance model Tesla makes ). Went from zero to about 80 mph. Set to " insane mode " which is their version of other makers " sport mode " I suppose.

Let me preface this by saying that I was a passenger in an original Cobra 427, and I also drove a first generation Viper recalling those those two off the line acceleration experiences being similar to what I imagine the sensation one would have being shot out of a cannon.

But I was very calm and collected . Not so with the Tesla. I cannot adequately describe the panic that engulfed me in the first couple of seconds after the takeoff of this car : I saw death staring me in the face. I thought there is no way that car could possibly stop within the same county, lol, no matter how great the brakes may be, before smashing into something .. It was just plain frighting ! If that car had an exhaust which sounded like the Maserati GT, or an Aston Martin , or even a new Vette or 500GT Mustang, or an old Boss 302..well, you get the point.. I would buy one . ( in spite of an endless wait list for it , even now when it sounds like a muted sewing machine ..)

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[Rap]

So what was the religious experience? What did death look like? Any idea which religion was at the root of this experience? Fast is cool though! Was God the driver?

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[ds968]

The car had this bumper sticker : DOG is my co-pilot ( the driver is dyslexic ) . The religious experience was that I actually uttered : Jeezus , friggin' Christ ! when the car launched. Oddly, death kinda' looked like Bruce Jenner... wearing a black cocktail dress. Or maybe that was Bruce Jenner crossing the street at the time ..not sure. The religion at the root of this experience was Fastcarentology.

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[Rap]

lol

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[flash]

yeah- electric cars are quick off the line.  even the little i3 feels danged fast off the line.  it isn't nearly as fast as the model s, but 0-40 i think it would outrun a stock 968.

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[ds968]

I still hate quiet cars. Can't stand them, and will likely never own one in spite of how much I like the BMW I 8, and the Tesla sedan. However, being a passenger in a silent car is fine - no different that being driven by a chauffeur in a Rolls, or Bentley , etc.

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[flash]

lol - i think they're great.  i love the silence.  i've spent a lot of time and money quieting cars down.   in cars with the purpose of commuting, i find silence is perfect.  calming, relaxing, soothing.  not what i would want in a toy though.

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