[Monstrous4Banger]

Up to 300 miles a charge, 5.6 sec 0-60, all electric.....pretty exciting stuff those guys are working on. Most of the car is fbaricated in house, and of course American made.

http://www.teslamotors.com/models

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[Cloud9...68]

It's a beautiful car, and is hopefully as well executed as it is attractive. But I kind of see it missing the mark. To me, electric cars should primarily be straightforward, single-purpose commute vehicles. The Model S is upwards of $90K for the one with the big battery, which still needs 8 hours to recharge, which means it still can't be taken out of town very conveniently. Well-heeled "environmental enthusiasts" (resisting the urge to use the condescending term "tree huggers" here) will buy them, but this isn't a very big market. We'll see how they do. If the Fisker Karma is any indication, it could be a rough road...

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[Monstrous4Banger]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' timestamp='1350011251' post='133709']

It's a beautiful car, and is hopefully as well executed as it is attractive. But I kind of see it missing the mark. To me, electric cars should primarily be straightforward, single-purpose commute vehicles. The Model S is upwards of $90K for the one with the big battery, which still needs 8 hours to recharge, which means it still can't be taken out of town very conveniently. Well-heeled "environmental enthusiasts" (resisting the urge to use the condescending term "tree huggers" here) will buy them, but this isn't a very big market. We'll see how they do. If the Fisker Karma is any indication, it could be a rough road...

[/quote]



The entry level version with the 85kWh battery is $70k after rebate. Charges in about 5-6 hours at home(depending on option if I understand correctly). At a super charging station, which there are already seemingly enough of in the most populated parts of CA, and supposedly many more to come nationwide along the interstates, a full 300 mile charge in 1 hour!!!! The price is high, but its seemingly practical.

http://www.teslamoto...om/supercharger



I mean, just look at the chassis on this thing. Its a frickin motorized skateboard, with a cabin on top. The center of gravity is very low, and well balanced to boot. It must handle, and grip like a dream! It also has the lowest drag coefficient of any car on the market worldwide.

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[ds968]

My work colleague who was on the wait list for one of the premium models, has to wait a bit longer than originally indicated ( even more upsetting news to ME because I was supposed to test drive it and really be the judge whether it stands up to the hype :-) ) very high demand for them apparently. I did see a few others however, and I do think they are very nice, classy looking cars. Love that shade of red, but I understand it will not be made available in the lesser priced models. Not sure why that is but that's what the dealer said. Anyway, when they make an electric car that looks this decent AND has a minimum 500 mi range before charging, AND can be charged in less than 15 minutes, AND there are at least one for every four gas stations where you can charge it AND it does not sound like you're driving a sewing machine or a small vacuum cleaner , MAYBE I,ll consider buying one.

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[Cloud9...68]

Don't get me wrong, it looks like it could be a great car, I'm just suspicious that once the initial demand from the very limited demographic that is going to be interested in this car is met, you're going to find them languishing in dealer's lots. $70K is a huge price for the entry-level model, which has a range of maybe 160 miles, iirc., probably <100 miles in the extreme cold. Also, the American taxpayers are going to quickly tire of subsidizing these things. I know I already am.

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[flash]

um - the cayman is that price. so is the boxster s. entry level models. same demographic.



electric cars are the way of the future. people need to get used to that. we don't need long ranges when you plug it in when you get home or to your destination. you plug your phone in to charge when you get home. you'll do the same for your car.



the only problem with electric cars, (besides dealing with the batteries and all that entails from both an economic and ecological standpoint) is how the electricity is generated. we need to get off of fossil fuels to generate electricity, and get on to solar, hydroelectric, and safer nuclear (please don't pronounce in nuke-u-lar mr bush). we already have the ability to generate enough solar power to feed the entire country. we just need to build a really big set of panels in the desert, where we aren't using the land for anything else anyway.



it's going to take more people weening themselves off of the lazy habit of accepting gasoline as the source of fuel. it's happening, albeit slowly. now, if we could get the same level of movement in large array collectors, in 10 years we could be off gasoline almost completely.



if we could get our garbage trucks to collect and sort the starch laden trash, and take it to stills and turn that into alcohol, we'd be there now. no corn nonsense. trash. FREE!

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[Cloud9...68]

Flash,



I don't disagree with the validity of electric cars - given most peoples' driving patterns, they make a lot of sense for a lot of people. And I'd like nothing more than to see a viable alternative to gasoline. Everybody benefits when there's competition.



What I'm questioning is the market for a $70K to $90K electric car. It makes no sense. We taxpayers have dumped I don't know how many millions of our tax dollars into companies like Tesla and Fisker, and what have we gotten? Cars that practically nobody is going to buy. Where's the accountability?

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[flash]

i don't think it's a car that nobody's going to buy. people buy the oddest expensive cars (panamera).



i think it is a different demographic though than would buy a chevy volt. i think the demographic that would buy this car would be the same one that would buy a cayman. it will be the more affluent yuppie (does anybody say that anymore). it won't be the local hairdresser.

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[mbardeen]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' timestamp='1350054060' post='133727']

What I'm questioning is the market for a $70K to $90K electric car. It makes no sense. We taxpayers have dumped I don't know how many millions of our tax dollars into companies like Tesla and Fisker, and what have we gotten? Cars that practically nobody is going to buy. Where's the accountability?

[/quote]



Considering both the roadster and the Model S signature are already sold out, pretty decent I'd say.



I think Tesla has gone about this smartly, market for the early adopters and the trend setters. Then work on getting the costs down, the technology proven, and start selling mass market.



This isn't a new business model, I have a hunch that when the automobile was first invented it was only available to the rich. Now look at it..





As for the government's involvement -- I think fostering innovation is under the remit of government. I certainly prefer them spending money on electric auto development rather than yet another way to kill people.

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[flash]

yup - people seem to forget that the first 2000 tries at a light bulb didn't work, but still cost money.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

"um - the cayman is that price. so is the boxster s. entry level models. same demographic.



electric cars are the way of the future. people need to get used to that. we don't need long ranges when you plug it in when you get home or to your destination. you plug your phone in to charge when you get home. you'll do the same for your car.



the only problem with electric cars, (besides dealing with the batteries and all that entails from both an economic and ecological standpoint) is how the electricity is generated. we need to get off of fossil fuels to generate electricity, and get on to solar, hydroelectric, and safer nuclear (please don't pronounce in nuke-u-lar mr bush). we already have the ability to generate enough solar power to feed the entire country. we just need to build a really big set of panels in the desert, where we aren't using the land for anything else anyway.



it's going to take more people weening themselves off of the lazy habit of accepting gasoline as the source of fuel. it's happening, albeit slowly. now, if we could get the same level of movement in large array collectors, in 10 years we could be off gasoline almost completely.



if we could get our garbage trucks to collect and sort the starch laden trash, and take it to stills and turn that into alcohol, we'd be there now. no corn nonsense. trash. FREE!"



Absolutely, corn isnt necessary, its just yet another subsidized crop, that is cheap because of that. We could grow algae with a 80-90% yield of long chain fatty acids perfect for conversion to b100.





"Don't get me wrong, it looks like it could be a great car, I'm just suspicious that once the initial demand from the very limited demographic that is going to be interested in this car is met, you're going to find them languishing in dealer's lots. $70K is a huge price for the entry-level model, which has a range of maybe 160 miles, iirc., probably <100 miles in the extreme cold. Also, the American taxpayers are going to quickly tire of subsidizing these things. I know I already am."



The base entry level model is 50k. The base model with the 300 mile range (85 kWh battery) is 70k. Basically if you want 300 miles of range, its an additional 20k for the batteries. Its like 7000 batteries. The range youre referring to is the $50k model. Which is 160 miles IIRC. As a Libertarian, I certainly agree with the subsidies, I dont expect those to last though.



As a side note though, Im not sure whats going on with the forum software. I keep getting errors when doing things. Like trying to use the multi-quote here tells me.



An error occurred

[center]

The number of opening quote tags does not match the number of closing quote tags.







I also couldnt start a new topic in the "what do you think" forum, and when I use the search engine all I get is an error about one of the words I used has too few characters.







[/center]

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[flash]

hmmm -



there is a limit to the number of quotes you can use in a single post. quoting really isn't necessary much, and this prevents posts from taking up a lot of room unnecessarily, and also from duplicating content in a search.



you should not have had a problem starting a new thread. make sure you have cookies enabled. stuff gets weird without that.



the search engine requires at least 3 characters. no way around that.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Yeah My cookies are on, its only the "what do you think" forum. The button says I cannot. Im giving the search engine more than 3 characters. Example: I searched "tesla model s" to make sure it hadnt been brought up before, and it gave me the too few characters error. Every time Ive tried to search now for months, same error.

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[flash]

hmmm - first i've heard of that. i'll look into it, but i tend to think it is a localized problem.



anyway, there is a place for a thread about this, so as not to pollute this thread.

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[Cloud9...68]

I think you guys are right that Tesla is trying to get a foothold with affluent early adopters, then work on getting the cost down on future models. They really don't have any other choice, as lithium ion batteries are so expensive. I hope this strategy works, as I would like nothing more than seeing some viable competition for gasoline. I'm just a bit less optimistic than most that it will. Electric cars, while a great concept for a lot of people, have a few serious challenges. Mainly, they're too expensive today to be an option for the masses, and if (and that's a very big "if") they can bring the costs down significantly in, say, 5-10 years, they'll be competing against gas and diesel cars getting a government-mandated 50+ mpg. But of course this improved mileage will also come at an increased cost, so who knows, maybe electrics will be competitive. There's definitely no arguing that the Model S is a beautiful car, and as an American company, I hope they succeed.

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[flash]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/driveon/20...e/1614653/



http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index



http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html



http://www.ford.com/electric/focuselectric/2012/







what makes me nuts is that they have 80mpg diesels in europe, but not here.

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[ds968]

Today Tesla Motors announced its decision to build the new ( battery ) manufacturing facility right here in the US . Can't tell you how thrilled I am to hear that a $ 5 - 6 Billion investment stays here, as opposed to some cheap labor country to which it could have easily been outsourced for what would have undoubtedly been far greater profits. So 6,500 direct jobs and an additional estimated 20,000 + " trickle-down " support jobs are expected in Nevada as a result of this, in just the first year of operation. The battle was between California , Nevada and Texas, and it seems Nevada came through with the quickest and largest tax incentive for Tesla ( and Panasonic, the other company in the joint venture ). Kudos to Elon Musk and the board of directors for their confidence in the local economy and for their lack of greed . I might end up buying a Tesla after all, lol .

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[flash]

i think it's largely because they are just about to release their huge household battery that will allow people to connect their solar panels to it, and get off the grid entirely

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[MCL968]

My sources in NV govt tell me that the decision was made many weeks ago, but the Gov was waiting to sign the tax relief agreement as close to elections as possible. I understand that they will also be focusing on marine batteries, as well as home units as Flash pointed out above. It will be a boon to both the Reno area and the US overall. Our lack of humidity and altitude makes manufacturing sealed devices easier and more successful, so I expect the same will be true for battery packs.

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[ds968]

Yeah I hear they're be producing all sorts of batteries for many different applications. Forgot to mention, I was a bit surprised Texas was in consideration at all, isn't Texas the state which prohibits Tesla from selling cars there directly ( requirement to do it only via a local dealer network ..) ? Or am I thinking of another state ?

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