[Marcusli]

The SFR kit gives 315 rwhp @ $5995, why go for 270 $ 5k? What am I missing?

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[Etnier]

Air conditioning, I guess.

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[flash]

also, unless something has recently changed, the SFR kit is not smog legal either, which VERY soon is going to be a 50 state problem - many states have already implemented the new standards



without taking anything away from the SFR kit, it is my understanding that the kit is not exactly "plug and play" - i am determined that this kit will be exactly that, and though i am not using their unit, i am keeping in like with the long standing philosophy of the largest and longest lived centrifugal blower kit company (Paxton) - their kits were always very complete, problem free, and straight forward



if 6k would have bought me all of that, i would have bought one a long time ago - i won't give up my AC, and i HAVE to have it smog legal



also, i don't want to change my ECU



so, again, can we PLEASE limit comment to those who say "yes i am seriously interested"?



this thread is NOT for an open discussion - please feel free to start one of those, and i'm sure there will be one later - this is purely to gauge interest

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[Ninemeister]

Can I point out the seemingly obvious?



As most of you will already know, we (9m) have considerable experience with supercharging the standard 968 engine, instigated by initial experiences with the very good SFR kits (as fitted to Sandoval's car) then furthered by the design and manufacture our own conversion. To date we have sold quite a few 9m conversions, all of them non-aircon versions with the optional larger radiator conversion. Using current production parts, our own 968CSS now runs with minor revisions at 420bhp crank & well over 325bhp at the tyres measured in 6th gear on our dyno. I think this qualifies me to speak with a little authority on the subject.



First of all, with the standard intercooled 9mSC kit (which run with standard cat & exhaust), most cars run with around +100bhp at the tyre, which varies from 280 to 300bhp (6th) compared to standard of 180-200bhp. To achieve this increase you need to run with 6.5-7psi of boost at 7000rpm, and at this level intercooling is essential in my opinion, but for a/c 968's there will be serious heat problems if you fit the a/c condensed in front of the intercooler (which in turn is in front of the water rad). Hence, Flash's idea to run with lower boost without an intercooler is probably the only way to get a system to run on a car with aircon. This leads me on to my suggestion for Flash (or someone else) to consider:



Since we already have a few SC cars around, it would be very easy for us to use one of them for development work, e.g. fit the supercharger with a larger pulley to slow it down and remap the ecu to cope with the lower boost level. We could also leave the intercooler on to monitor the pre/post intercooler temperatures and then, provided the SC outlet temp was acceptable, we could then run it without the intercooler and measure the results on the dyno. My expectation is similar to Flash's, I think a 4-5psi kit would make around 260-270bhp at the tyre but no more.



I would have thought that all of this work would cost around £2000 ($3500) from start to finish, which is a lot less than the $50k for 10 kits at $5k each. Whoever paid for the work would then have all the answers they needed to give a prospective purchaser a guaranteed return for their investment, the only job then required being a simple engineering job to package the blower on a car with a/c, the simplest method being to use our current design and relocate the alternator onto the power steering bracket and fit an electric power steering pump.



All you have to do is ask.......

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[flash]

and yet another person who can't seem to read any of the times i said "if you want one of these, speak up" - otherwise please keep your thoughts to yourself



however, to your points, i think you are missing the single biggest one



$3500? - that's peanuts - get on it - loan yourself the money and do it - the sales are there if you do - there are plenty of people who would buy it if you do it first, test it, prove it, and package it - i don't understand why you haven't already - for 2 years now people have been saying that they would buy one if they got to keep the AC - why haven't you done it yet? seems like a no brainer investment to me - if it's such a great idea for somebody else, why don't you do it?



this will of course include the necessary C.A.R.B. cert, right?



for 50k, we are talking about 10 units complete with everything needed to install, including new front plastic housing and air cleaner assembly, AND the all important certification - this last one is essential in california today, and something similar everywhere else in the US very soon, so considering anything without it for a street car is a no-go



and by the way, nobody's money leaves their hands until i have finshed everything - i am footing the entire bill up front (the way it should be with any developer of anything) and then selling them the discounted units for getting in and committing early



another thing - eric's car was frought with problems, and took forever to get running, so i wouldn't go sighting that one as a good example - that is not the kind of nightmare i am planning on packaging



i encourage you to step up to the plate and develop this, but it doesn't seem like you want to build them, and rather to just criticize somebody who is offering to do it



i would be happy to license the package to you after i complete it if sales competition is your concern, or you don't have the money to loan to yourself to develop this - as i said, i have no interest is going into the parts business



we now return you to our regularly scheduled programming where we are looking for SERIOUS INTEREST only

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[Ninemeister]

[quote name='flash' date='Apr 10 2006, 01:18 AM']and yet another person who can't seem to read any of the times i said "if you want one of these, speak up" - otherwise please keep your thoughts to yourself[/quote]







Flash,

You are absolutely priceless.



I am not interested in the US market as it is fraught with issues for non-US companies, and in the past I have also tried to raise firm interest in a 968 a/c kit with no success. My previous post was a genuine offer of help to get your CARB certified USA a/c conversion off the ground by you covering my development expenses at cost price, so as far as I am concerned (given your unique attitude to genuine offers of help) I have nothing more to add than to wish you the best of British mate, you are definitely on your own.

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[flash]

well, perhaps you should have sent this to me offline - i would hvae responded very differently - i REALLY want this thread kept to simple "YES" responses from those with serious interest - i would be happy to discuss anything about this offline, but it does not belong here - we already have wasted more than a page on things other than such responses, which is all i am looking for at this time



if i misinterpreted your intentions, i apologize, but without the ability to get a C.A.R.B. certification, any pursuance of course based on your work is moot, and to me a complete waste of time - as for saving me money, it isn't - i can get the whole kit and kaboodle, blower, brackets, and everything, done for that and walk away myself, all except for the cert - doing anything without that though is also moot - this would not include any tooling or setup for replication either



but frankly the 3500 is not a concern to me - that's peanuts - i'm not sure what it would be buying me though - the brackets and such are a no brainer - been there done that - the units are fairly cheap - software is pretty easy - i assume then that this includes the parts



3500 is only about a fifth of what it will cost me to develop this right for reproduction though - the real money is in the certification process - for that, the air cleaner has to be developed, a housing for it, and then there is the big fee, and the cost of a car sitting with them for 90 days for them to basically blow up



now if you want to sell me a complete package for 3500, then we have something to talk about - then all i have to do is buy another car, poke it on, and leave it with them, take it back, scan the parts, tool up, and run the CNC



so, where was i? oh yeah - all those with serious interest.....................



never mind

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[Mark]

Having just read a little more I didn't catch the fact that this was a centrifugal s/c'er so you can drop me off the potentially interested list.

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[flash]

interesting - for this application, being a prefereable unit to a turbo, for heat issues alone, let alone the plumbing, and a lot easier than a roots, why would you choose not to do it because it's a centrifugal unit? no worries - just curious - i'm pretty sure i already have enough interested people to do my initial run

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[Mark]

Prefer the performance characteristics of the roots and feel it would give more help where this car needs it. I have faith that I won't need FI to get that number anyway (Pete).



Also having trouble finding the right 2nd 968 so may go another route entirely. I'm sure my wifes car will make it to stage 2 no matter what.

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[flash]

got it



yes, a roots will give more down low - i'll just never get that past CARB - since the standards and laws are becoming nationwide very soon, this is a major concern if it is to be driven on the street



i too am hopeful of pete's stuff working out - i have to admit though i've been thinking about how much fun it might be to have both

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[Mark]

Maryland got strict a decade ago but the guys at the emissions stations passed my 968 without even testing it (I think they were baffled by it) and the same with my S2000 when they didn't know where the obdII connector was on it. Didn't even sniff the tailpipes. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

lol - ah - so you're the guy - last time i had a problem and hoped to get passed, he told me "sorry, we already gave away the free ride"



no way would i get that lucky - when it comes to smog tests, if it weren't for bad luck, i wouldn't have any

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[rxter]

Looking for something else I stumbled upon this. Great stuff. When's the bbq (post 6)? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

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[DaveN]

Deja Vu all over again. I love the historical read and am glad that I wasn't there for the first postings! Would have had to wait 4 years for what seemed like a for sure thing in 2006 [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

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[ds968]

Hmm, let's see...this thread's first post was April 7 2006. Someone else' SC development first post appeared three years later , March 9 2009. So now we know how Bob stole the SC design idea : he built a Flux Capacitor for his car, drove three years into the future and returned with the idea. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] There, caught red-handed !! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]

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[Mark]

Not to mention the emails and PMs I have with Bob discussing the Rotrex s/c I have from 2+ years ago through current times, possibly 3+ years ago

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