[ordy]

Hello



It has become time to increase the performance of my 968cs, to my horror i have found out that 9ninemeister no longer does there supercharger kit, what a bummer as all the tests on it where great.



Has anyone fitted the speedforce supercharger themselves recently?, i think i remember reading that they had problems with the mapping originally, does anyone have any feed back how the kit performs and the car drives with one fitted.



Regards



Simon

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[Gotter]

I know there's some feedback on here. I was thinking about it before... Search for SFR and some things should pop up. I think one of the main things (and one of the main reasons I didn't do it - yet) is that is was highly recommended to get the engine worked. too something about the SFR putting more than and old tired engine can handle?? Other guys can speak more verbosely on that.

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[banditsc]

The lack of A/C is a problem for those in warm climates also.

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[flash]

those are some of the "issues", but i'm not picking on SFR either, because every other forced induction package out there is the same in the following respect:



a big problem for me is that it is not truly complete - they only take the tuning "enough to get you going", and don't finish it - a low boost system for this car should be plug and play, and require no tuning - the chip, and whatever else needed, should be a part of the kit - the parameters of the engine are knowns - the fuel and timing requirements should be too - leaving tuning up to the buyer smells funny to me - it's like doing your R&D on the customer's dime



perhaps they have finished that now, but the last i heard a couple of months ago, they had not



they recently said they are working on new low boost turbo package, so there is a chance that one will be complete - if not, i wouldn't touch it either



last weekend i ran into the guy with whom i started working on the supercharger project of my own - we will be getting together in the next few days and mapping out the project - it will take time, but it will be complete - no tuning - no nonsense - it will work like that or we will not sell it

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='flash' post='58488' date='Aug 28 2008, 06:50 AM']last weekend i ran into the guy with whom i started working on the supercharger project of my own - we will be getting together in the next few days and mapping out the project - it will take time, but it will be complete - no tuning - no nonsense - it will work like that or we will not sell it[/quote]





Looking fwd to it. I've read many articles on the SC for the 928 (obviously a entirely different animal) but the effects of a SC on that car was HUGE! I'd like to see the difference it makes on our cars.

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[flash]

we are only looking at very modest increases, compared to some of the things you see out there - we are looking to do about 270 at the wheels - that's it - any more than that and you start having a lot of issues with suspension, chassis, etc



it will still not be able to be successfully installed on a tired engine though - no forced induction package can do that - that is a recipe for disaster



lol - but, barring catastrophic failure, the cost to repair is potentially the same, so i suppose whether you do the rebuild before or after is a relative risk - just realize that you will have to do one, and it won' be able to be put off for long



details to follow AFTER it has been proven and all details worked out - we won't be publishing anything about it until it is truly ready for the public, and we won't be seeking development money from a buyer either

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[rhudeboye]

Be patient with me on this one.



When you say 270 "at the wheels" would this be the same as say the Acura TLs power as it is rated at 270HP or more like the 350Z which is 307HP. Or would you expect it to be faster then both?



FWIW- my current stock tired 968 has no problem running with either and there's no way I'm still putting down a full 240hp.

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[flash]

i don't want to get into comparisons of anything - it is all hooey until we have one working - but, to follow the logic, if you're already keeping up with them now, and you add another 70hp.................................

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[Gotter]

[quote name='flash' post='58503' date='Aug 28 2008, 08:40 AM']i don't want to get into comparisons of anything - it is all hooey until we have one working - but, to follow the logic, if you're already keeping up with them now, and you add another 70hp.................................[/quote]





LOL... sorry, when I read that it reminded me of that guy in Orgasmo... "I don't wanna sound gay or nothin', but..."



<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Sorry, randomness.

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[rhudeboye]

Muhahahahaha



That was my thought as well but I expected your numbers to be more around the 300 mark. But as you said "its all hooey" anyway. What matters is the performance and reliability.

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[flash]

lol - no worries



one thing to remember, this is not something that will ever be "cheap" - the hardwre and plumbing to make this work right will take some time, and won't be simple



if you are the type to buy used parts because you either can't or don't want to spend the money on new ones, this is NOT for you - there will be no shortcuts - there will be no do-it-yourself ways around the kit to save a couple of bucks - we will market it for as low a price as we can, but when it comes to forced induction, you just don't mess around



we don't want people blowing up their engines, or having problems getting them running, and then blaming us, so be sure that we will take all steps to insure that when it is finished, it will be right, complete, and do what it says on the tin



i think that's about all that can be said about it until then - right now, it is only on paper, and further discussion is moot

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[biotechee]

Rhude-



Our cars are rated at 236HP at the crank from the factory. Factor in driveline loss and whatnot (varies based on source cited), and you're in the neighborhood of 190-205HP at the wheels. Typically, numbers quoted by manufacturers are at the crank. From a marketing perspective, what sounds better? 236 or 200? Americans like big numbers!



One of the advantages our car has over some of the newer, higher HP cars is the weight. Our cars are not terribly light, but they are relatively svelt compared to a lot of today's cars. Especially the 968 6spd coupe. I know for a fact the 350Z weighs a boat load, great engine and all that, but it is a heavy pig. I am sure the TL isn't a lightweight either. All these new cars have so many creature comforts, gadgets, sound proofing, etc. that they become monsters.



So, what you really want to compare is the pounds per HP ratio. This is why cars like the original Mazda Miata were such a blast to drive- a good lbs/hp ratio. Same goes for the Mini, etc. My 1998 318i only had 140ish HP, but it weighed less than 2900 lbs IIRC. It was major fun in stock form. If I had kept it, I would have considered supercharging it with a Downing Atlanta system. That would have added about 100HP and it would have easily kept pace with the then-current M3 and probably also been close to our 968.



Jim



Check out this link....



http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2007/10/24/...tml?partner=aol

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[biotechee]

Rhude-



Some power to weight comparisons for the vehicles you listed:



Nissan 350Z (2007)

Weight ~3339 lbs

HP ~306



Ratio= 10.81:1



Acura TL Auto (2008)

Weight ~3636 lbs

HP ~258



Ratio= 14.08:1



Acura TL Type S Auto(2008)

Weight ~3674 lbs

HP ~286



Ratio= 12.85:1



Porsche 968 Coupe Manual

Weight ~3086 lbs

HP ~236



Ratio= 13.08:1



Of course, there are lots of other factors (actual driveline loss, tire/wheel combo, etc.)... But generally speaking, a car with a better power to weight ratio should be quicker everything else notwithstanding. And if I were a bettin' man, I would wager the 350Z would take our 968 in a straight line given equal conditions (same driver, same course, etc. etc.)- sometimes you just can't argue with more HP!



So take out those heavy OEM Porsche seats and the rear seats already, slap in some lighter racing style seats, dump the OEM exhaust for a lighter RSBarn system, and get that ratio below 13:1 already!!!!

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[flash]

i am currently at about 11:1 - looking forward to getting below that magic 10:1 number

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[biotechee]

Will you be getting rid of your toplines in favor of some lighter hard backs or something? And if you would just make a tonnuea cover for the 968 cab cabin, you can then remove all the top mechanism stuff and just leave the boot on- drive it only in nice weather, store with the tonneau on...



Did you remove your cab motors? I believe you indicated you use manual operation for the top so as to not break the bow.



You should easily hit 10:1 or better with a supercharger.... 3000# and 300HP = 10:1 (just call me Capt. Obvious!)

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='biotechee' post='58510' date='Aug 28 2008, 09:04 AM']Rhude-



Our cars are rated at 236HP at the crank from the factory. Factor in driveline loss and whatnot (varies based on source cited), and you're in the neighborhood of 190-205HP at the wheels. Typically, numbers quoted by manufacturers are at the crank.[/quote]



Thanx. The above was just what I was looking for.



PS The early 350Zs were producing about 285HP. I've driven them and the power just wasn't there. Very disappointing cause its a sweet looking car.

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[flash]

lol - i'm keeping the sportlines - they are about as light as you can get in a recline seat - this is the street car after all - the race car will get something MUCH lighter



i am definitely doing the tonneau - will be getting the upholstery guy going on that VERY soon, along with a zip out rear window



cab motors still in there - they only weigh 3lbs, and i think i'm going to keep them - when i redo the top, i will replace the cables and go through everything, just to be sure it is all perfect



not a lot left i want to pull out of this car - again, street car - i'm actually peeling back a step or two on setup on this car, having pushed it to the limits and decided to actually drive it, rather than continue to develop on it



now, the race car will be a very different story, given that i will not be running pca with its rules.........................

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[ordy]

Cheers , i thought that may be the case, that you gain bhp but the car becomes a pig to drive.



Flash your idea sounds great, i hope it comes off, i will keep watching the forum, i suppose sending the kit to the uk would not be a problem.



ninemeister who use to do the kit in the UK which was rated at 350bhp at the crank no longer do the kit as the supercharger manufacture has changed the design and they say it no longer works on the 968, pitty the roadtest reports all loved it.



Was thinking of selling my 968cs due to need for more power, however will hang fire and hope.



Regards



Simon

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[flash]

i can't imagine the kit being shipped over there would be a big problem - we would go through channels though, as we don't want to get snagged up in the nightmares of customs and such - there are some manufacturers over there in for a big surprise when they find out they need to start declaring their stuff at customs here, and can no longer just mail it to the customer - i don't know what the costs and such are, but i'm sure we can figure it out



we are not looking at a 350hp kit - that involves an intercooler, a resultant much higher cost, and a lot more issues with programming - as i heard, that kit never worked right out of the box, and required tuning - i believe it also deleted the AC, which we will not accept - they did get a few cars running though, and even had a couple with some silly power numbers - i have no long term reports on durability or downstream complications

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[Gotter]

[quote name='flash' post='58521' date='Aug 28 2008, 10:01 AM']lol - i'm keeping the sportlines - they are about as light as you can get in a recline seat - this is the street car after all - the race car will get something MUCH lighter



i am definitely doing the tonneau - will be getting the upholstery guy going on that VERY soon, along with a zip out rear window



cab motors still in there - they only weigh 3lbs, and i think i'm going to keep them - when i redo the top, i will replace the cables and go through everything, just to be sure it is all perfect



not a lot left i want to pull out of this car - again, street car - i'm actually peeling back a step or two on setup on this car, having pushed it to the limits and decided to actually drive it, rather than continue to develop on it



now, the race car will be a very different story, given that i will not be running pca with its rules.........................[/quote]





Oooooooo.... *clapping hands like a schoolgirl* I haven't heard about this! What's the blueprint consist of? Hard/soft boot? Just redesigning the old boot/the whole top??

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