[ds968]

Funny coincidence - scanning through this morning headlines, I noticed this article on the most and least religious States in the US :

http://www.thestreet.com/story/12965285/...erica.html

Ha, maybe not a coincidence at all, given the timing of this article it's surely a " sign" ! :-)

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[Rap]

I'm not comfortable with that leap. There is no real evidence to refute it. Nor do I believe a lack of evidence is necessarily proof positive. There is a tremendous amount of info that we don't know anything about. Yet yearly new things are found and discovered. Can you imagine what the world must look like to people in their 90's. Medicine has jumped immeasurably since then. Progress and technology has also jumped in ways even Einstein couldn't have imagined. Does anyone think that we have learned all we will in medicine or what the next great technological discovery will be that will alter life as we now know it? Consider space, the last frontier, is there anyone here among us who believes we have learned all that is to be learned in and of space?



Quantify love for me. Does love exist under your reasoning? No. Why, because you can't scietifically measure or prove it? Nor disprove it for that matter. This hurts my head, off to the garage!

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[flash]

i would argue that choosing not to believe in something that has no proof, no matter how popular, would be the example of free will, and that choosing to believe, and merely follow the masses, would be an indication of a complete lack of free will.



"love is overrated and biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate."



atheism or being non-religiousis the third largest "religion" and growing daily.

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[ds968]

I think you will also find that a lot of these surveys , just as in the above example where 84% of the population " identifies " themselves as part of a particular religion, are flawed because it does not explore how strong, if any, the actual belief in religion those individuals have..but rather only their response " I'm Catholic, or I'm Protestant, or I'm XYZ .." was recorded , which is more indicative as to how people associate themselves with the faith of their parents, their culture, and so on. There was an expose' a while back produced by a German TV station where people who labeled themselves as part of a religious group were asked if they went to church or even believe in God. At least half said that deep down they were really agnostic and never step foot in a church since they were children, the other half was pretty much split among true believers and atheists but atheists who said they were Lutheran, or Protestant, or Catholic when first asked by the interviewer. I think atheism is not only the world's fastest growing segment, but I also think maybe half of the rest of the world say they are religious or faithful because it's a great thing to blend and fit in with a socially acceptable norm. Lol, I wonder how many Vatican cardinals are closet atheists but love the power and control that comes with the position ...

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[968Syncro]

Plus, tracing down the Washington Post article (the 84%), the data is from the Pew Research Center (Pew Foundation), and the source goes back to a study by the "Pew-Templeton Global Religious Futures project" which of course means the Templeton Foundation which is notoriously pro-religion. Both Pew and Templeton define themselves as "unaffiliated" -- yeah right! -- but are really oriented towards "conservative evangelical thought".

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[Bulti]

In some countries ALL people are deeply religious. At least those who still got a head on their shoulders, lol.

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[Lear35A]

In case no one has noticed this is not much of a discussion. It is a group of secular/agnostic/atheists reinforcing their own biases. However I will chime in one last time, briefly, to respond and to explain very simply how I got on the path I am on.



The bad guys There have been one, maybe two billion professed Christians over the last couple of thousand of years. Gentlemen, only a tiny fraction of those waged war, raped, plundered, murdered, tortured, and whatever else I have left out. Those acts did get plenty of press though which could overwhelm the true message of Christ for those who could not make the differentiation. And those acts, although done under the guise of Christianity, were done for power, land and/or money. The same reasons for which such acts are always done.



The Bible It's actually a pretty interesting book. And a long one too if you haven't noticed. For a lot of it to make sense the book has to be taken as a whole. Unfortunately few are willing to take the time to study it at that level. Pulling selective stories out does not do the book justice. I do not understand everything in the Bible. It's doubtful anyone does 100%. At the same time I don't understand everything about my 968 either. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy it as it is and have fun while I try to learn more about it.



Me I like aviation. Because of that I have hung around our local airport since I moved to this area about 14 years ago. One pilot that was often there got my attention. We weren't close, but something about him was different, special. I couldn't put my finger on it, but it was definitely there. Turns out he was a local pastor. So just for kicks I asked him about it. He didn't preach to me; he didn't evangelize me; he just kept it short and simple. And you know what? I decided I wanted what he had. So on my own I went to his church. And much to my surprise I liked what I heard, and I wanted to know more. On Feb 2, 2003 I made the choice to be baptized at the ripe old age of 55. This amazed my wife, my son and others. Best decision I ever made. My life is better. Period. I don't need to justify it any further to anyone. I have been blessed.



So for anyone still hanging around this thread, I will say au revoir. I'll pray for you. That's really what Christians do best. We're actually not so good at war, raping, plundering, murdering, torturing, etc. Really. We're not.

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[Rap]

Lear don't count me in that first paragraph please. I'm one of those Catholics that doesn't go to church. Was once an altar boy. Was abused by a nun in first grade. Stopped going to church when I went to college and didn't have to anymore. I believe in God not to fit in but because I choose to. Perhaps I'm not what some might consider a good Catholic, im certainly better than when I was younger, but I try to live a good and Christian life to the best of my abilities. Sometimes thes abilities are strictly self serving. Then again I'm just an imperfect human, so what. I view most polls with a jaundiced eye. They remind me of statistics. Wherever I've lived I've noticed an awful lot of churches and church going people.



We hear a lot of comments here from the coasts, mine included. I often wonder about how different the middle of the country might be on some of these issues. We have a lot of Hispanics entering this country and a majority of them are Christians.



Lear pray for me because I need it not because you want to.

By the way I am continually amazed at the gentle and thoughtful discourse that occurs here on the Forum where in most places it can't. For those of you who wrongfully disagree with me, well, Lear and I will pray for you.

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[968Syncro]

[quote name='Lear35A' timestamp='1417385090' post='164120']

In case no one has noticed this is not much of a discussion. It is a group of secular/agnostic/atheists reinforcing their own biases.

[/quote]

Well.... yeah.... the subject of this thread is the movie Religulous. And so perhaps much of the commentary is oriented to follow-on from many of the themes in that movie. Maybe we should all watch the movie again to keep focused. If an open or general discussion on religion is desired, then there are a multitude of subjects that could be started.

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[Rap]

Unfamiliar with the movie. Real sorry like but this just happens to be my opinion. Generally I don't let movies influence my opinion. Frankly we don't watch many movies.

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[ds968]

I have seen that film twice so I'm definitely a fan, but it does tend to ridicule religion so I think most people of faith will not bother to sit through it and maybe will close their minds even more so to the debate - that's one of the reasons I recommended Sam Harris' video or / and any of his books ; he takes an extremely pragmatic approach to this topic and dissects it brilliantly, addressing pretty much all the questions anyone could possibly have on the matter.. It's unlikely to offend any religious person who is a centrist and willing to keep an open mind. MHO .. :-)

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[968Syncro]

It is a documentary (not a Hollywood movie). The link to the movie was in the first post, on youtube. But of course like most documentaries they do take some editorial liberties.

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[Bulti]

I like Bill Maher's approach. He poses honest questions to religious people. I don't think he ridicules religion. I think it does that to itself.



And Lear, I still want to thank you for sharing the story. You don't need to justify anything. The pastor is probably a good man and a good friend to you, but god did not have anything to do with that I'm afraid.



In the end, good will, empathy and every good or bad characteristic a man can have is all there because of Mother Nature and Her evolution.



She's my god, she 'decides' directly or undirectly what will become to all of us. She has created us and will be our doom.



I think I will write some books too. Maybe they will become the new Bible in a couple of thousand years.

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[ds968]

I'm still surprised how few members posted / engaged in the discussion of this thread, the reason I initially indicated I'm hesitant to be too blunt on the subject was due to an expectation that it would be the only topic which could possibly create way too much discord here given how deeply personal religion is to so many . Oh well, now I have to stick around for a couple of thousand years to see if Bulti's book gets its recognition as the newest testament .

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[Rap]

Will it be written in English?

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[flash]

well, to be the true "word of god", it would have to be written by multiple people, passed around, voted on by a committee led by somebody who doesn't believe but needs the political clout it would bring, and have a lot of it left out because it might be unpopular.

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[ds968]

So you're saying this would basically be a congressional bill ...?

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[flash]

lol - yeah - about as close to reality too. funny how it is the same line of thinking. i wonder...........................

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[Bulti]

[quote name='Rap' timestamp='1417445021' post='164137']Will it be written in English?[/quote]



The language of choice would be irrelevant. A promising cover, title and a crazy discount would be the key to success. People would make what they want of the contents anyway.



Ok, I'll throw in a few virgins to be sure, lol.

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[968Syncro]

[quote name='Bulti' timestamp='1417454935' post='164143']

..... a crazy discount would be the key to success.

[/quote]

Excellent -- or give it away for free, then the "sheeple" are instantly obligated to you. Great business thinking Bulti, are you available to join our company?

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