[Rap]

Now that's what evolution is all about

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[rhudeboye]

<p style="margin:0in;">Hey Dan, Rap, Flash 

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<p style="margin:0in;">I’m a bit late but I’d like to throw my .02 in there as well. 


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;">I listened to the first few minutes of the video Dan Posted. I don't find him offensive and I agree with the overall thought, that those who are simply followers can be a danger. Which applies to nonreligious organizations as well.


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;">By listening, I assume he has never studied the bible. He mentions a lot of things that people believe is in the bible but is not. Now how can anyone argue something to be false without first understanding it?


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<p style="margin:0in;">Here are a few points that I find exaggerated or pointless to his claim of religion being dangerous:


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<p style="margin:0in;">"Belief that Christ will descend from the clouds within 50 years". Scriptures say "you do not know the day nor the hour" not to mention that I don't take that literal. But for those that do, I see no harm. if anything they may be better citizens as theyre on their best behavior.  


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;">"NY going up in a mushroom cloud will have a silver lining, namely the Apocalypse?" What was his point? They’re not joyful at the loss of life and they are sadden like the rest. But Christians understand that these things will happen and escalate in our time as prophesied. It says the same about earth quakes and we see their increase in activity, it just builds faith. 


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;">"Condom use immoral"- That's not scriptural. it’s a man-made doctrine practiced by Catholics.


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<p style="margin:0in;">"It’s taboo to try and justify or prove Gods existence" - WORNG! The bible implores us to test what we hear and to study it. The bible speaks highly of a group in Bereoa as they carefully examined what was told to see that it was so. They would test it or prove it true. Acts 17:10-12 


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<p style="margin:0in;">Most of his illustrations don’t fit people worshiping a living spirit. i.e. comparing those who idolize dead men like Elvis to those who worship a creator or that illustration of belief being like a diamond buried in the backyard (29min mark). Those are pretty insulting. Had i never felt Gods calming spirit upon me in times of distress, or received an clear answer to a prayer, God wouldn't be real to me. it cant be compared to an inanimate object or an immortal man.

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<p style="margin:0in;">Now, I'm gonna PRAY that somebody buys my blk /Gray 94 968 coupe. 

<p style="margin:0in;">See it in the FS section   

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[flash]

people generally see what they want to see.  if they get a positive "response" to a prayer, they think god did it.  if they get a negative response, do they feel the same way?  many people just don't have it within themselves to take what comes to them, and realize that sometimes life just sucks, so they look to blame it on some imagined divine entity.  similarly when something goes right, they thank that same entity.  why? because that's what they were taught.  this dates back to the origins of religion, and why it came into being in the first place.  it is very difficult to control the masses.  it took the threat of something larger than we experience looming out there ready willing and able to punish us forever to accomplish that.  this continues today.

 

i would argue that, if there is a god, that he is a vengeful, spiteful, and evil being, and something to be shunned.  how else can you explain how things have gotten to the extent they have?  how else do you explain the things people do?  why would any being so powerful allow it?  you can't blame it on "free will" either.  that's the common cop out.  we hold responsible those who oversee and control things.  how can some all powerful being not be held just as accountable?

 

if there were such a being, why has there never been any proof?  wouldn't that be the quickest way to get everyone on the same page?  why hide in the shadows?  after thousands of years, it must seem clear, even to the smallest of minds, that we will continue to screw up when left to our own devices.  why not make an indisputable appearance and put an end to that?

 

most critical thinkers quickly come to the same conclusions.  it's only by a lack of confidence in themselves that people don't.  it's that weakness that has kept religion as strong as it is.  there is a reason that people are referred to as sheep, and congregations as a flock.  it's reinforcing the idea that we must be subservient to something greater.  it perpetuates the illusion.  it's hugely ironic that we are supposed to have free will, but only as long as we cower to god.  "you can have your model t any color you want, as long as it's black"

 

by the way, bill has read the bible, as have i.

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[Rap]

As I sat at my Aunt's funeral today in Baltimore I listened to a priest give what were the best and most profound remarks I had ever heard at a funeral. I mean like really what are you supposed to say at a funeral. He made it pretty simple. I will condense it. Talking and sharing memories, the actual funeral itself and faith. The coming together and sharing the loss and the faith in the belief that this God has a plan and we all fit in that plan was the core of dealing at this time in life. It's tough to accept fitting within a plan that you have no input in. This higher power doesn't ask you to cower to him but rather believe in him and with the understanding that this will result in spending eternity with him when you pass.

God doesn't exist to sit over us and control our lives so we don't screw up. I wouldn't much like being a marionette living a perfect existence. The living of life with its ups and downs, good and bad, unspeakable evils and the highest of highs is the essence of what we are given.

This is difficult to accept when you've suffered a loss of a loved one or read about some unspeakable act committed it seems almost daily. Is there not faith that we all accept, believe and commit to when we get behind the wheel of our vehicles and drive on the roadway?

Just some reflections that were perhaps colored by the day's events!

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[flash]

i fail to comprehend why people feel that there needs to be a plan.  i feel sorry for those who feel that something is missing, or they need a crutch.  you're born. you live. you die.  that's it.  no plan.  no great mystery.  no questions to be answered.  everything you need to know is very basic.

 

man created religion for the very basic reason of control.  it worked well too.  without it, we would likely be extinct, or at the very least nowhere near as advanced as we are.

 

being a reasonable man, i am open to proof, but failing that, i will follow occam's razor on this.  with absolutely no evidence ever shown to prove existence, and actually quite a bit to the contrary, it is far more likely that this is complete fantasy than some all knowing all powerful being with some grand plan.

 

if there is, i'd like to kick his ass for playing hide the ball for so long.  that's just plain wrong.

 

but hey - if there weren't these sheep, nobody would have bought a pet rock or a justin bieber album

 

and yes, i am well aware that there are people who feel just as strongly that i am wrong.  i'm fine with that.

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[Rap]

Speaking for those of us who believe in religion, we are very happy with your charitable comment about feeling fine about being wrong! You see, this is just a good example of you being part of the grand plan.


Jake you're strangely silent!

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[flash]

lol - i didn't say i was fine with being wrong.  i said i was fine with others believing i am.  if they are going to believe in one fantasy, they may as well believe in another.

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[Bulti]

If there was a god, he would have Porsche make more parts for our cars.

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[Rap]

What another one of youse, "what kind of God doesn't make enough parts for a 968"?

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[Bulti]

Lol, you should pray a little harder then we all get better from it.

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[lbpesq]

1 In the beginning Man created God;

and in the image of Man

created he him.


2 And Man gave unto God a multitude of

names,that he might be Lord of all

the earth when it was suited to Man


3 And on the seven millionth

day Man rested and did lean

heavily on his God and saw that

it was good.


4 And Man formed Aqualung of

the dust of the ground, and a

host of others likened unto his kind.


5 And these lesser men were cast into the

void; And some were burned, and some were

put apart from their kind.


6 And Man became the God that he had

created and with his miracles did

rule over all the earth.


7 But as all these things

came to pass, the Spirit that did

cause man to create his God

lived on within all men: even

within Aqualung.


8 And man saw it not.


9 But for Christ's sake he'd

better start looking.

 

© <i>Ian Anderson 1971 (from the rear cover of Jethro Tull's "Aqualung" album)</i>

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[ds968]

I posted this on the politics thread but since it has a Religulous base, thought I'll post it here as well : http://www.salon.com/2015/04/19/marco_ru...ng_clowns/

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[jthomson]

I have so thoroughly enjoyed this thread I only discovered today, having been away from the forum for some time.

 

My sis-in-law is one of the most agnostic folks I know-always has been. She lives in Western Springs, near Chicago and many years ago joined a local Methodist church with her young family. We were discussing that subject one night and I asked her why she joined a church, considering... She said she did it for the fellowship, as a way to get involved in the community. In the years hence she has gotten her church involved in community gardens, various youth programs, and most importantly an open, welcoming embrace of the LBGT community, including a chapter of of All Families Matter.

 

She's always held the attitude, as have I; that I don't know what happens when we die and I don't care. Do all the good you can. Don't be an asshole.

 

I've a feeling there are many more out there like her.

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[Mark]

I posted this on the politics thread but since it has a Religulous base, thought I'll post it here as well : http://www.salon.com/2015/04/19/marco_ru...ng_clowns/

Not a Rubio fan but they are using a satire site similar to the Onion for some of their info on Rubio's father, but I guess I don't believe Salon has a whole lot of integrity anyway.

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[ds968]

Agree, Salon is not a source of entirely credible and non-satirical info ( sort of a Fox News counterpart , lol ) but I thought the essence of the story itself is interesting enough and has sufficient truth to expose what some of the recent candidates actually spew out of their mouths , which is to say the least, disturbing. Now, whether they believe what they say is another matter - if they do, I believe they are marginally insane, if they're simply pandering to what they believe is a large demographic of Christinan followers who are naive or gullible enough to vote for them just because of their alleged position on " Christian values " , they underestimate a large part ( arguably even the majority ) of their target audience .


Re jthomson 's post : I also believe there are a lot more agnostics out there than what is reported . I would not be surprised if at least a third of the country is truly agnostic but are hesitant to publicly admit it , because in the good ole' USA although not to the extent of declared atheists, even agnostics can still experience discrimination or be shunned or dismissed as instruments of evil, lol.

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[flash]

nobody actually "believes" in god.  if they do, they are delusional.  by definition, you can't believe in something without proof.  you can only theorize and speculate.  they just hope there is one.  they may feel very strongly about that hope, but it's still just hope, and not based on anything real.  

 

it's ironic how many people start "believing" as soon as something goes bad, or they get sick, or some similar crisis enters their life.  it's a last ditch hope in something that will rescue them.  let's see, we'll ignore all the other crap going on in the world, let everything go to hell in a handbasket, but we'll cure your cancer.  yeah - that's gonna happen.  that makes sense.  you deserve it more than the millions of starving people on the planet that you did absolutely nothing about.

 

like i've said, religion has had a very important place in society.  it has been an excellent mechanism to control the population.  that's why it was invented.  no man could adequately rule the world, as he could not wield enough power, but an imaginary being that could see everything, know everything, be everywhere, and wipe you out with a wave of his hand, now that is something to be feared and obeyed.  for those who didn't have fear, there was the promise of a better life in another place.  absolutely brilliant!

 

lol - musing for a moment, i wonder how the "believers" would feel if they found out that we are all just a flock of sheep to be fleeced, who were put here by some ET to multiply and provide a food or labor source for them, and are just awaiting them to come back to ship us away to the processing plant.   would they still believe?  would they freak out?

 

as for how many atheists or agnostics there really are, because it is still a stigma, i think it's going to be a lot like other socially unacceptable issues.  until it becomes "accepted" a lot of them will stay in the closet.

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[968Syncro]

It doesn't bother me at all that the candidates profess their religious beliefs during the election campaigns.  To become president (at least for now) one requirement is be a member of some Christian faith.  So candidates must be either members or liars.... it doesn't matter which one since both are required job qualifications.

 

The scary part is when they become president and they base their decisions on divine guidance.   I tried that in high school --- "my god told me to go party instead of doing homework" -- it didn't work.

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[ds968]

I was watching The Simpsons last night - I don't watch it regularly, ( unlike the Family Guy of which I try to see as many episodes as possible )  just when I flip trough the channels and nothing better is on - Flanders,  a very Christian character was praying for something specific he wanted or he wanted to do though I don't recall what it was now , and asking God for a sign that his prayer will be answered.  After a few moments without a sign, he said : " Thank you Lord,

as usual, I'll interpret the silence as a sign of thy will !  "    Must be the same logic ISis uses..   

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[Rap]

Oh yea of little faith. Alcoholics Anonymous works in helping people get and maintain sobriety. There is exactly no scientific evidence to support its success. Zero, none. Yet it works. Scientific evidence is not the end all in determining the truth or validity of something. I will grant you it is in many things but not all. I believe in God and I may be delusional in many things but not in this.

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[flash]

actually there is a very scientific reason it works.  it's basic psychology.  we train dogs the same way.  AA works due to no reason involving god or religion.  it works because when a weak moment comes, instead of caving in, that urge has been replaced with going to a meeting.  this is positive reinforcement.  i know plenty of atheists in AA.  it's really no different than why diet programs that provide things for your cravings works.  the urge is still there, but you substitute something not threatening to the success.  

 

it's the same as giving a dog a treat for doing something right.  with AA, you get the "attaboy" support from the group.  eventually you ween yourself off of the meetings for the most part, just as eventually we stop giving the dog treats, and then substitute verbal praise, and finally nothing at all, as the dog learns that it's just the way to behave.

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