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hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - sydneyman2007 - 01-10-2012

you know, the new VW scirocco diesel goes from Berlin to Warsaw on one tank! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/EmoticonCar.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> (a la top gear)



im surprised no one has mentioned the subsidizing of most hybrids... chief among them the Volt... so in a way, we've all bought a piece of one, we just can't use it...



just had to stir the pot a bit <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/beer.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - Rap - 01-10-2012

Good point!

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - rhudeboye - 01-10-2012

WOW! not one member here in favor of a hybrid. Well, except me. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



A point was made on page 2 that they have no resale value. That's not true. There is a smaller market for hybrid customers but its growing fast and used Prius' are moving off the lots fast, as i was told by a salesmen at carmax. As for the battery replacement cost, for anyone that has done their homework, they will find that there are places that rebuild and replace bad cells in the traction battery. And these batteries are not new. They've been used in equipment like forklifts for years. Replacing the Batt on a prius can be done nowadays for $1800. Plus, i've been reading that Toyota is doing buy backs on old batteries for the following reasons:

a. To ensure that they are not improperly disposed

b. to recycle the materials

c. to research and improve the battery.



Yet I see what could be another advantage, but im not sure on this one as of yet. I've heard 0 problems with the CVT. Transmissions can go on any car but the CVT is much smoother and less complex then a typical transmission with 5-8 gears, torque converters and such. Replacing a tranny is typically the type of hit that makes owners cringe as the cost can be anywhere from 3 - 9K. Cost and labor is on par with R/R and engine. I'd rather replace/refurbish the Batt then replace refurbish the tranny.

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - sydneyman2007 - 01-10-2012

i think what soured my view of hybrid technology was the summer of '07 or so when hybrids (the prius) were selling over MSRP and people were getting jack for their trades(suvs/trucks, etc.)



I had a buddy who had the '04 V8 Grand Cherokee with about 30,xxx on the clock(bought it used for 30 grand a year before) and since he was tired of getting *only* 18 mpg highway, he traded it in for a brand new Prius for 35 grand. He got 8 thousand on trade in towards the Prius. he lost 22 thousand dollars in one year on that Jeep...



One day I did the math for him with the mpg involved to show how much he "saved". He could have saved 180 bucks a month. He didn't like what i showed him and only now will he let me tease him for it...



The point about people just buying a car every few years and always having a payment is a good one but i don't think thats how it plays out. my buddy bought the prius for better economy to save money... and he ended up losing 180 a month and who knows HOW much on the jeep if the hybrid craze wasn't going on...



don't even get me started on the clunkers program after that...



Now while i think anyone with a mind for finances would say what my buddy did was foolish, i think it was pretty indicitve of what was happening for most "educated" people. (and still is!)

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - rhudeboye - 01-10-2012

[quote name='sydneyman2007' timestamp='1326207846' post='120267']



I had a buddy who had the '04 V8 Grand Cherokee with about 30,xxx on the clock(bought it used for 30 grand a year before) and since he was tired of getting *only* 18 mpg highway, he traded it in for a brand new Prius for 35 grand. He got 8 thousand on trade in towards the Prius. he lost 22 thousand dollars in one year on that Jeep...





Now while i think anyone with a mind for finances would say what my buddy did was foolish, i think it was pretty indicitve of what was happening for most "educated" people. (and still is!)

[/quote]



Yeah, Can't blame the car for a private owned dealerships greed and an uneducated decision.



I have co-workers and friends with Hybrids. Everyone's happy with their purchase. They all praise their cars and welcome others to drive them. They are genuinely happy with the car. This is the majority, well, at least from my point of view. And so far they're trouble free.



Change is never readily accepted. i hated the Prius, but now, outside of its ugly exterior and lack of real power, I wouldn't mind owning one. My close friend who's a long time mechanic (Carlton) picked up a 4 year old Prius in Nov. This is a guy that also owns a S-class and has long said i hate those little things. So I was shocked when he told me he got one. He said " It became the most beautiful car in my garage after I filled the tank with $22 and drove it for 3 weeks".

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - flash - 01-10-2012

the thing that gripes me is the misleading advertising. i know maybe 50 people with a prius. NONE of them get the advertised mileage. they are all averaging about 30. that's no improvement over cars we had in the 80s, and actually quite a bit less than some of them. how did we go backwards?



anybody remember the Top Gear test with the prius versus the M3? both cars running around the track. the prius got 17mpg and the M3 got 18.



to get the advertised mileage on the prius you have to drive like you are on your way to a funeral. i just don't see that as practical.



electric cars will be a better solution, but we have a long way to go to get the infrastructure up and running, and we definitely need better and safer batteries, that are less harmful to the environment.



if you absolutely have to buy a new car, i guess it can make some sense, but buying one just to get better mileage is just plain bad economics.

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - lbpesq - 01-10-2012

Anyone ever watched the "Smug Alert" episode of South Park about Hybrid vehicles? Hilarious! You can watch it here:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/episodes/s10e02-smug-alert



Bill

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - ds968 - 01-10-2012

I do not know anyone who owns a Prius or other hybrid, or an electric vehicle for that matter, so I can't comment on the common perception that hybrid owners are smug / holier-than-thou and delusional , and I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule for this one, much as not every Vette driver is an insecure dipstick wearing a satin jacket and a belt buckle bigger than his****,

but I can comment on the fact that without exception everyone to whom I have spoken seems to hold hybrid drivers in contempt for some inexplicable reason.. of course if I lived in Santa Barbara or Berkeley I might see things differently ; reportedly those two cities have the highest Prius per capita cars in the entire U.S.

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - DaveN - 01-10-2012

I'm just going to hang around for a few more years and pick up an OPOC diesel engine car. Gates is backing this thing and the mileage is incredible. http://www.ecomotors.com/technology

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - Cloud9...68 - 01-10-2012

Yes, I've heard of the OPOC engine. There's also a company working on an approach in which the intake and compression cycles happen in one cylinder, and the ignition and exhaust in another, with a cross-over pipe between them. They claim the potential for a 40-50% improvement in efficiency over the standard Otto cycle. And there's a lot of work going on with direction injection of a small amont of ethanol directly into the cylinder right at the moment of ignition, allowing diesel-like compression ratios, with F1-like boost levels, without detonation. Not telling which, if any, of these concepts will make it to the real world, but my point is that there are a lot of fascinating approaches in the works, and with any luck, we'll be seeing some amazing levels of fuel efficiency, with little if any sacrifice in performance, within a decade or so, which I think will make complicated approaches like hybrids unnecessary. This should buy us a lot of time to work out the issues of some future, non-petroleum based alternative fuel. It's going to be an exciting time to be a car enthusiast.

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - rxter - 01-10-2012

Have you seen the "wouldn't it be cool" Nissan commercials? WHen the guy says "wouldn't it be cool to have a car that doesn't change gears" and they show a drink not getting spilled all I can think of is - yea, great for the passenger. Sucks for the driver. I like changing gears all by myself damn it.



Oh, and the Fusion commercial where the woman says its like driving a computer - sounds like a blast - sign me up.



WRT to the smug thing. I think that has changed as hybrids are more mainstream. I am seeing every manner of driving from Prius owners now, from the hypermiler to the guy who is pretending he is driving a Porsche <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - Cloud9...68 - 01-10-2012

Not being political or anything, but just for the chuckle factor, just once, I'd like to see a Prius plastered with right-wing bumper stickers. That would be a hoot. Doubt there is such a thing, though. About as likely as seeing a Hummer with a Greenpeace sticker...

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - Chris Vais - 01-10-2012

There is no shortage of smug Prius drivers in the Peoples Republic of Berkeley. When they first hit the streets, it seemed like all of the drivers were oblivious to their surroundings, but what I think was going was that they were all concentrating on driving to achieve minimum fuel consumption. I've seen more than a few pull into the left lane going about 55 mph when everyone else is a 65+.



Now I get passed by hybrids being driven at 75 + and I see a lot more of them along the side with a CHP cruiser behind them, so I guess the novelty of saving money on gas has worn off for some.

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - Langley968 - 01-11-2012

Keep it up guys! This thread has become a great comedy read.



"I'd like to see a Prius plastered with right-wing bumper stickers. That would be a hoot. Doubt there is such a thing, though. About as likely as seeing a Hummer with a Greenpeace sticker... "

This has prompted me to think that I might buy a used Prius someday! ...just to plaster some of those right-wing stickers all over it! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/clap.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

I think I'm going to open Craigslist right NOW! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/glare.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - Langley968 - 01-11-2012

I'm back from checking Craigslist...



"This has prompted me to think that I might buy a used Prius someday! ...just to plaster some of those right-wing stickers all over it!

I think I'm going to open Craigslist right NOW!"



WOW those used Prius cost an arm and a leg yet!

So much for NO resale value!

That means that the stickers won't be slapped on any time soon!!!

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - ds968 - 01-11-2012

If you do plaster some right wing stickers to a Prius, add one more ( since I have first seen it on a car many, many years ago, to this day it still remains one of my favorites ) : DDAMM and the caption below it, reads : Drunk Drivers Against Mad Mothers





hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - craigawoodman - 01-11-2012

As for Hybrid drivers advocating their car - you would want to if you had paid a significant premium for some sort of technology to justify it. How many would really come out and say, "Yep I am another shmuck who got conned by all of the advertising BS and didn't do my homework"?



As per previous posts - a modern 1.5L turbo diesel will give better fuel economy and is cheaper. The VW twin charge 1.2L or 1.4L from memory will out perform a Hybrid in the real world.



How about - "Hype is much better than reality". If we are talking bumper stickers - for the rabid tree huggers - "I like unwashed women with bushy underarms".



I agree that technology is constantly improving. A hybrid is the laptop in the world of Tablets and Ultra Notebooks - so last decade.



So in 10 years time, will everyone be going - now that was an excellent cutting edge choice - or will they be looking at their hybrid going - that was a Betamax decision (cool at the time and technically the right choice - but the rest of the world moved on).

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - Rap - 01-11-2012

My lease is up in March and I am contemplating what's next. Despite reading some well articulated opinions on hybrids, none of them would make me consider a hybrid. I will say however that the diesel comments have got me intrigued. Currently I have a Infiniti G37sx. Any suggestions. I'm not from Berkeley and most times aren't smug!

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - craigawoodman - 01-11-2012

Rap,



Have a look at an Audi A4 or A6 diesel. Even a second hand A8 (last model) with either the 3.0L diesel or the 4.2V8 turbo diesel. If you want a true 4x4 - the same 3.0L engine is in the Toureg, Q7, Q5 and Porsche Cayene. Pretty much every car listing in this paragraph has the same 3.0L V6 diesel engine in it - talk about component sharing across a range. The smaller VW/Audi 2.0L turbo diesel engine is also in the Golf/Jetta/Passat range.



The BMW 3 series diesels are not bad - but not 4x4 (well not over here anyway).



The diesels in the Range Rover Sport and Landrover (3.0L V6 - not the 2.7L) are power and torque wise - on par with the Audi's now. not sure if it is the same diesel engine in the Jaguars as the Landrovers - but the bigger Jag's are very fuel efficient - but not 4x4.



Over here - the Nissan Navara is now available with a 190kW, 550Nm 3.0L V6 turbo diesel - which matches the Audi outputs - not sure what that engine is available in over there.



For the ultimate fuel economy - the Hyundai i30 diesel is very high - something like 3.0L per 100km - if you can live with the rest of the car.

hybrids what do you think? Would you buy one? - sydneyman2007 - 01-11-2012

Unfortunately Craig i think maybe 2 of the cars you mentioned are even available here in diesel. In America, diesel is an ugly word apparently... I would LOVE a diesel version of my P38A Range Rover... oh well...