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Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - Printable Version

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Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - TheDude - 11-01-2012

Quote:the new horsepower up top pushes the kit up and over that of the Turbo S.



O.K. You meant of course the 968 Turbo S quoted to have 337 HP (ADAC spec., K27 turbo).



Stage 2 dyno shows "270,7" top HP at the axle. How do you arrive at 337 HP plus at the crank?



Wonder how the dyno chart of the Turbo S compares to the D1R supercharger?



MN

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - flash - 11-01-2012

the Turbo S had 305hp



The Turbo RS had 337 (the Le Mans version had 350)

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - TheDude - 11-01-2012

Thanks.

Sorry for me getting "Turbo S" and "Turbo RS" muddled up. When I see "Turbo S" I still think of the 951.

There is still a very noticeable drop in torque around 3300 RPM? I assume, you tried to straighten out the torque curve.

MN

P.S. Count me in for the Stage 2 upgrade. Please let me known when to send you the check.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - flash - 11-01-2012

lol - no worries. there's a whole lot more than that getting messed up about the 968 turbo cars, right down to how many they actually made of each type.



place the order. i can't keep track from here, and will make the run based on the orders. i'm getting pretty close now, and only expect a couple more days before i pull the trigger.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - Gotter - 11-01-2012

I am VERY tempted now....

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - flash - 11-04-2012

to all those interested:



i now have enough orders to proceed, so i'm calling in the order for batch 1 monday.



i'll run whatever i have orders for. after that, i will have to wait for enough orders to accumulate to justify another batch. i have no idea how long that will take. i do know that it will be at least 30 days before i can even look at it, as i have other things i am working on that will take priority over this. there will also be a fairly short window for a second batch, as i am on a major project that will occupy me for the latter part of december and the first part of january.





i will shut it down though, if any of the following happens:



i sell out the supercharger kits in stock

february 1 arrives

i hear back from everybody and i have gotten to all of those who want one



so, if you want it, better to order it now.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - TheDude - 11-04-2012

Happy to read that you decided to go ahead with the StageTwo kit.



There is a very noticeable drop in torque around 3300 RPM in the dyno chart. I assume, you tried everything reasonable to straighten out the torque curve.



MN

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - flash - 11-04-2012

yeah - that one bugged me, and i was fiddling it for a while. i got it to flatten out, but as soon as i got heat soak, it would detonate. it's right at the "high load" point of where people would nail the throttle in normal driving.



that being said, there is a drop even in the stock curve. it looks more severe on that graph because it isn't as wide on the chart. if you notice though, the dip is much less in stage 2 than it is in stage 1.



yes, i did everything i could to flatten it out. the problem is the limit in number of data points. there are only about 14 data points in the WOT table. that doesn't leave a lot of room for specific area tweaking. the other issues is the dual resonant manifold. when you start pushing boost through there, it starts changing the way that works.



nothing is perfect. this is as good as it gets without complete rework of the system, which would be very costly, with not all that much to gain.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - Eric_Oz_S2 - 11-05-2012

A small point, but you can change the maps to more than 14 points. You simply change the map pointer and the map length identifier. The new longer map is inserted in a blank section of the ROM (FFFFFetc). I have done this before - works perfectly - have got 1 x 23 maps to work for example.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - flash - 11-05-2012

maybe with what you are using for the S2 ECU, but not in this software you can't, and if i do it in the other software, this software can't read it and the other software can't read my new maps.



so, i'm stuck.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - TheDude - 11-06-2012

If I may ask you both: What software are you actually using?



Flash, is there anything preventing you to use a different software?



MN

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - Eric_Oz_S2 - 11-06-2012

I know the 968 ECU can handle bigger maps. The software I use is TunerPro RT. You can simply edit the xdf file and point it to the new location so it will read the maps. Just make a new parameter called 'Bob's New bigger map' or something like that. It is then a matter of simple calculating the hex values for the new RPM points using the standard Motronic formula for RPM.



So put it simply:



Find empty code section in EPROM

Determine rpm values for required number of map 'columns'

Calculate decimal values and then convert rpm values to hex. For decimal calculate:

(last/highest RPM = (256-'last value in table')*40, each value to the left (reducing) = previous rpm - 'next value in table'*40, etc.

Create new parameter in xdf file and add in rpm values for column headings

Determine new fuel or ignition map values and add rpm to xdf

Add fuel or timing values to new xdf parameter

Change appropriate map pointer to an empty section of the ROM

Fine tune fuel/ignition values

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - TheDude - 11-06-2012

Thanks Eric.

Isn't TunerPro also what Rogue_Ant (Roguetuning) is using for this tuning. Apparently he was also successful in expanding the mapping, even claiming to have rewritten the two-dimensional Idle and <acronym title='wide open throttle'>WOT</acronym> tables (of the 951) to three-dimensional tables (http://goo.gl/Z5vuw).

I wonder if Rogue_Ant would have any recommendations/suggestions?

MN

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - Eric_Oz_S2 - 11-06-2012

Yep, that is what is Josh (Rogue) uses. He will be starting on the S2 maps soon with <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> conversion full logging etc. The code changes Josh made were done directly into the machine code though. Only map changes are done through TunerPro.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - flash - 11-06-2012

no - won't work



my new map is an entirely new map. it is not a bigger map that was already there, or even based on one of those. i can't go into what it does any farther without giving away proprietary information.



the bottom line is that tuner pro cannot read my map, therefore i cannot use tuner pro for what i want to do, as i have to use the software that can read it. the other half of the problem is that if i use tuner pro, then my other software coughs and chokes on the file, making it useless.



tuner pro is incomplete anyway, and doesn't have about half of the maps for the 968. i have it, and have used it, and it's a whole lot better software than what i am forced to use, but it won't do what i need to do.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - TheDude - 11-06-2012

O.K. I see that software tuning is not an easy art (of which I know nothing).

20 foot-pounds drop at around 220 foot-pounds, less than 10% (Stage Two kit). Ought not to be noticeable anyway! (Or will be?)

MN



P.S. I misread the units, the drop is only 10 foot-pounds.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - flash - 11-06-2012

lol - it's not a drop - it's a failure to rise



to answer your question, look at the stock torque curve. do you "notice" a torque drop over 4400? it's larger than the drop we are talking about



look at the chart i put up, not just the graph. it only drops from 225 to 216. that's only 9 ft/lbs, and still a gain over what it used to have.



if you hovered at that rpm, and wanted to find it, you could. but the torque ramps up so quickly from there that it is very hard to see. the subsequent rise is almost 4 times the drop, in the same amount of rpm change.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - TheDude - 11-06-2012

[color="#222222"][size="3"]
Quote:lol - it's not a drop - it's a failure to rise
[/size][/color]

[color="#000000"][size="3"]Don't you think, you being a bit clintonesque![/size][/color]

[color="#000000"][size="3"]I took a second look on the graph of the Stage Two kit, the drop in torque is maximal only 10 foot-pounds. (I misread the units of the graph, I stand corrected.)[/size][/color]

[color="#000000"][size="3"]MN[/size][/color]

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - flash - 11-06-2012

roflmao - it is election time you know



re: misread - no worries. i nearly went blind going over the 120 odd graphs and charts from the tuning. i can't count the number of times i mixed things up or misread something.

Stage 2 Kit is done!!! - TheDude - 11-06-2012

Could/would fiddling with or adding additional variocam (de)activation points help?