Noise in bell housing - Printable Version
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Noise in bell housing - Paul@tretheweylaw.com - 10-06-2008
I just had mine done.
The last time I checked, Paragon listed it as available from them for around $1100.
The way this is situated, either the engine or the trans must come out.
Good luck with it.
Noise in bell housing - p65356sc - 10-10-2008
Thanks I did find one and it was received on Wed. Flash is going to get the old one to create a miracle device to save us all. Tipers that is. Hey and don't bad mouth tips to much..........My 92 came with LSD as a standard item. Wait a minute so did I actually and a few other thing and can't quite remember.
Ross
Noise in bell housing - unknown4u - 10-11-2008
Ross canb You make some pictures of teh old damaged one?
I'd like to see what is in.
Earlier in one of the replies from this topic some said the damper could easily out the driveline.
I think the damperplate is for eliminating the heavy shocks from the shift above the 3000 rpm. At this time the tip is hydraulic locked up. (Stall speed.) The convertor can not eliminate the heavy forces when you will shift the gears under ful throttle.
Noise in bell housing - flash - 10-11-2008
while i'm not necessarily disagreeing, why do you think not? i don't think there are rubber dampeners in any other automatics i've had - do you think the torque converter is less capable than others?
when it gets here, and i can begin the project, i will definitely be taking lots of pictures
Noise in bell housing - unknown4u - 10-12-2008
Above the 3000 rpm the convertor is not working because it is locked up. Due to reducing the slip and fuelconsumption etc. Shifting than is a little brute when you don't have a slip other than the "brake" components in the tip that holds the next step. And don't forget it is the first tiptronic, maybe the construction in a modern 993 is different. I don't know?
I can imagine that when the damperplate is removed it will shift gears like a motor without using the clutch. A fast shifter use also the ignitionsystem. And a tip doesn't..
Noise in bell housing - flash - 10-12-2008
i understand the concept of the converter
but what makes it different from any other automatic, which as far as i know, has no such rubber damper?
Noise in bell housing - p65356sc - 10-13-2008
I'm picking up the car today........I will get the old part and send it off to Flash. I am getting rather discouraged about the car though. This has turned out to be a very costly repair. they are billing me for 22 hours labor............She is all up to date and running lovely but whats next. I was told these were very dependable cars but oh my garage the money I've spent on her since May.
Ross
Noise in bell housing - banditsc - 10-13-2008
It’s the maintenance items that will catch up on you if they haven't been done. Once the car is caught up on all it's wear items it ought to be pretty dependable for a while..
Noise in bell housing - p65356sc - 10-13-2008
I guess it is just hitting hard right now. In reading the timing belt sagas folks were saying do the belts every 15K ????? I just had them done with all the seals and pulleys water pump and all the doodads to the tune of $2,200.00 large. Every 15K? I know wrong forum. Oh yeah this little adventure with the flywheel damper as well as hydraulic lines rear trans seal $4,100. So much for Christmas
Noise in bell housing - banditsc - 10-13-2008
[quote name='p92968' post='61585' date='Oct 13 2008, 04:58 PM']I guess it is just hitting hard right now. In reading the timing belt sagas folks were saying do the belts every 15K ????? I just had them done with all the seals and pulleys water pump and all the doodads to the tune of $2,200.00 large. Every 15K? I know wrong forum. Oh yeah this little adventure with the flywheel damper as well as hydraulic lines rear trans seal $4,100. So much for Christmas[/quote]
15k miles on the TBelt is a bit premature, unless that 15k happened over a span of 5 years. I wouldn't be worried about 35-40k on the TBelt, though some have other opinions. The balance belt will need to be retensioned about 1k miles after your TBelt job, after that just have it checked every so often. It's actually something you could do yourself. The next TBelt job will not require the water pump or seals, so you looking at maybe $1k.
It's definetly not like a 356 where you just have to change the oil and adjust the valves.
Noise in bell housing - flash - 10-13-2008
don't feel bad- when i first got my car, i spent $6500 chasing down a RATTLE!
and it turned out to be nothing "wrong"
Noise in bell housing - 968Syncro - 10-13-2008
[quote name='p92968' post='61585' date='Oct 13 2008, 01:58 PM']I guess it is just hitting hard right now. In reading the timing belt sagas folks were saying do the belts every 15K ????? I just had them done with all the seals and pulleys water pump and all the doodads to the tune of $2,200.00 large. Every 15K? I know wrong forum. Oh yeah this little adventure with the flywheel damper as well as hydraulic lines rear trans seal $4,100. So much for Christmas[/quote]
Ross,
I bought my car about 2.5 years ago with 122K miles. When I looked through through the records in detail the PO had done the rubber damper, motor mounts, belts/water pump/seals, new power steering hoses, and a bunch of other major repairs all in the 1.5 years before I bought it. I didn't revisit the list just now, but I wouldn't be surprised if the total approached $10K. I always thought that might have been one of the reasons why he decided to sell it. I haven't had any of these types of major problems since. I did the PPI of course, but even before that I planned that I should expect several $K that I need to put into it, and in order to make the purchase worthwhile, either waited for the right one, or negotiated lower prices, so the combination of purchase price plus what I had to add subsequently made a sound total.
My view on Porsche's is they are designed and built for high quality and performance in a daily driver, and they meet this goal very, very well. To accomplish this goal the auto design (architecture) is optimized for that goal, which means things like:
- materials (metals) are much higher quality (reliability)
- designs are compact, they are custom designs, so that things fit in smaller spaces.
- parts are designed specific to a model, and therefore custom
- developmental testing of Porsches is legendary (costly also).
Contrast it to American cars which are typically architected starting with what parts are on the shelf, and what the company can push onto the consumer, rather than designing and building something that might be genuinely attractive to the consumer; note the focus is more on looks, nifty gadget features, wizz-bang stuff, and new (but not necessarily enduring) appearance, rather than sound engineering. Detroit is still thinking everybody should buy a new car every 3--5 years, and therefore don't bother delivering quality and performance like Porsche.
So my experience is that these are very high quality and reliable cars. But, at repair time, the parts can be expensive (since they are custom or specific to a model), and labor times can be long, since the car's architecture is such that it is optimized for "quality and performance", not for Mean-Time-To-Repair. The 968 even at this age, if it is in good condition, still represents about a $40K-$50K value if you compared it to brand new equivalent car.
Most people keep Porsches a long time, their usable life may be 10 years for the average owner (or more) in comparison to other brands with a life of about 5 years. I've done some quick napkin calculations, and if I buy a used one, hold them for years (like I have) the cost (even including major repairs) can be a fraction of a new car, and you still get to drive an excellent car. I really, really hope my wording doesn't sound like lecturing, I love these cars, and wanted to write a bit about why, but also the tradeoffs. My mission was to cheer you up, you have a terrific car, sorry about the hit in repairs, it stinks, but in the long run it should be excellent.
Roland
Noise in bell housing - p65356sc - 10-14-2008
Thanks Roland...........I have a 356 that I have had for over 30 years. I paid 2,000 for it and have rebuilt the engine twice in 87,000 miles. I guess your right in saying the cost is worth its eventual value both in sale price and pleasure.
Thanks
Ross
Noise in bell housing - flash - 10-14-2008
the way i look at it, it's cheaper than having a kid or a crack habit
Noise in bell housing - p65356sc - 10-17-2008
Well I got her back last night. She runs like a dream. When they put her back together they replaced all the seals an gaskets along the way. Including a rear seal on the trans. As they should I suppose. She's so quiet. I guess I had some exhaust issues I didn't know about. Also the fuel smell I was giving up on finding is gone. Go figure. They also replaced all the hydraulic lines to the tranny. Please don't tell my wife it cost me $4,100 Oh yeah Flash the old Flywheel Damper is on its way via FedEx Ground.
Ross
Noise in bell housing - 968Syncro - 10-17-2008
Nice Ross.. congratulations...must feel great. By the way, I love the slate grey color.
Roland
Noise in bell housing - todzilla - 10-18-2008
Wow! Major deja vu!
This is my first official post on this site - I just bought my (JDM) '92 guards 968 (tip) with 89000 orig. km's and ONE DAY after 1 bought it (yes, I got it ppi'd) the exact thing happened to me! I had thought it was an exhaust rattle/rubbing and it initially didn't worry me...........until they hoisted it, checked all external clearances (no probs) - took out my starter (thinking that may be it),,,,and coming up dry! Then they went 'in', and discoved what happened to you.........my heart sank ($1400 Cdn. for the part but only 10 hours re and re) The total came to aboyt $2400 so either I got a screamin 'deal' or your guy is not familiar with these cars? That sucks your bill was that pricey. I guess I don't feel that bad after hearing what you paid, and I feel your pain. I've had 3 944 NA's, 1 951 (ridiculous maintenance cost so had to dump it swearing I'd never again get into the 944/968 series)......then I found another one.......and got sucked in AGAIN!! Can't get these outta my system, and the 968 is just an all around better car in most respects......though the 951 was a bullet when I FINALLY got all the bugs worked out.
Anyways, good to hear you got her running and I lok forward to being an active member here and proud owner of my new cop magnet!!
Cheers!
Noise in bell housing - 968Syncro - 10-18-2008
Welcome Tod (?),
Sounds like we have to define this as a more common failure part for the tiptronic cars; similar to the more common pinion bearing for the 6 speed. Although if I remember correctly, the pinion failure doesn't happen to everyone, but happens more often and earlier than expected. The rubber damper seems to be something that will fail eventually.
So make sure to take some pics of your new car and put a "showroom" message up here. "968 Forums > 968 FORUMS BIZ, INFO & NEWS > THE READING ROOM > 968 SHOWROOM" on the forum.
Roland
Noise in bell housing - p65356sc - 10-18-2008
You brought up an interesting question for me..............Flash you may know? What is the book time on changing a flywheel damper? In their defense they also changed some hydraulic lines and a seal on the trans but??????????
Ross
Noise in bell housing - todzilla - 10-18-2008
[quote name='968Syncro' post='61823' date='Oct 18 2008, 07:04 AM']Welcome Tod (?),
Sounds like we have to define this as a more common failure part for the tiptronic cars; similar to the more common pinion bearing for the 6 speed. Although if I remember correctly, the pinion failure doesn't happen to everyone, but happens more often and earlier than expected. The rubber damper seems to be something that will fail eventually.
So make sure to take some pics of your new car and put a "showroom" message up here. "968 Forums > 968 FORUMS BIZ, INFO & NEWS > THE READING ROOM > 968 SHOWROOM" on the forum.
Roland[/quote]
I will get some pics up as sson as I give her a good wax....which has been tough as we've been enfuring some crappy weather of late.
I had a few other things changed while in there too (rear main seal?) but I think I still got away with a pretty good labor rate of 10 hours when I heard wht was paid here (and a few others on renn....can I say it here?) Car runs great now and all it needs is castor blocks/bushings (these are the same as control arm bushings?) and the reference sensor is getting a bit brittle so soon.....other than that, I'm, lovin it!
Todd