[Inkedupfatboy]

OK - SO I saw an ad in Wired Magazine for the Porsche Hybrid Panamera the other day. Really? Do they think this is a good idea?

Are there that many eco freaks out there that will drop that kind of scratch on a Porsche Hybrid? Starting MSRP $96,150!



Doesn't that take away the point of owning a Porsche? I can't imagine what the repair costs will be.



When I sold Toyotas, the battery replacement on a Prius was 100,000 miles and $10,000 bucks. I understand it has come down since, but really, who is going to buy a used Panamera hybrid with a timed out battery and face a huge repair?



I am sorry but I don't think we need to be making everything in a hybrid. Instead of buying a hybrid, I can buy a lot of gas for my for my Ridgeline for $30K! Does that offset the carbon footprint of manufacturing a new vehicle, even if it is a hybrid?



I am sorry, I just don't see it. Besides, Although I will admit the Panamera looks better in person than in photos, I still wouldn't buy one if I could.



And I can buy a hell of a lot of fuel for $96K!

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[Cloud9...68]

My biggest beef with hybrids is that you lose so much of your trunk space.

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[flash]

this is what happens when we set standards the way we are. currently it is an aggregate mileage spec of all cars the manufacturer makes. instead of that, it should be a percentage of cars being zero emissions or alternative energy sources.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

I still think it is the ultimate Porsche snobbery - "Look at me, I can afford a $96,000 + dollas car and I am rubbing it in further because it is a hybrid - look how green I am - you suck!" lol

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[Bulti]

I think that Porsche can not afford to ignore the hybrid technology. I don't like hybrids either, just as I don't like the Cayenne or SUV as a concept. But if that way the company can raise the funds to make other great (racing) cars, they have my blessing.



In any way, it's a necessity to try and earn some of their development costs back by selling the technology in hybrid models.



Both for racing and other purposes, it's a technology which represents the 21st century right now, a better environmentally sound fuel will make it's apperance, but the industry has to start somewhere.



Besides that, if I could afford a 100.000 dollar car, I wouldn't worry too much about any repair/maintenance costs.



Don't like hybrids: the 918 spyder really tries hard to change my mind (drooling)!

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[Inkedupfatboy]

I don't agree with hybrids in general. The development has been too slow and the offset is not a true gain in my opinion. The repair costs are too much also.

I mean, how much can you spend on gas instead of buying a $35K + hybrid, versus keeping your car maintained, and not wasting the carbon footprint to build the hybrid, and also knowing that when you trade in your fossil fuel guzzling vehicle that they are just going to sell it to someone else who will most likely keep it on the road!



Sooooo...you spend bug bucks, have a huge car payment, waste the carbon footprint to build your hybrid, and someone else gets to drive your original car. How much are we really saving the planet?



I think the tech has long existed to get even better mileage out of current vehicles, and and it is currently being repressed due to large corporations and governments worshiping the all might dollar/euro sign.



In other words, it's all BS that we have to swallow one way or another.



Remember, it is the manufacturers who continued to sell us on newer, bigger, faster - How many miles to the gallon did a Model T get?

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[Chris Vais]

I believe that all of the Porsche hybrids are primarily powered by there gasoline engines. They use what amounts to a kinetic energy recover system to charge a storage battery that can then be used provide a supplemental horsepower when required. The plug in Panamera is just a gimmick. Why plug it in, just fire it up and drive a while, charging the batteries as you go. If you want an electric vehicle the runs exclusively off of a battery you can buy a Tesla, Chevy Volt, or a Fiat e500 fir a boatload less money. Then again, a Panamera is a hoot to drive, much more satisfying than a pure electric car.

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[Rap]

While China, India and the rest of the third world pump out ever increasing tons of pollution on a daily basis, the idea of the value of a carbon footprint is just not relevant. Let them pollute themselves back in time just as the Middle East wars itself back to the Middle Ages!

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[Inkedupfatboy]

If you want to see how eco friendly the continent of India is, google the ship breakers and the funerary rites of the Indian people who burn their dead then put them right into the river systems. There are lots of other countries importing US coal to burn...while Germany has decided they will be taking all their nuke plants offline.



I don't see hybrids as the answer. I also have not seen how swapping gasoline for electric is an answer either. After all, you have to burn some sort of product (gas, oil, coal, coke..etc..) to generate the electricity. The Volt commercials all say, "Oh I spent $5 dollars on gas last month.) I want to know how much their electricity bill went up.



These cars are better at the inner city - short distance drives. Quick errands or going to and from work. For me, It's 10 to 15 miles just to get to the grocery store (one way) as we live in a rural area. Our county is 75 miles long!



I loved the Prius going down the highway yesterday (he passed me as I was doing 80) with a roof rack and a kayak on the roof. Toyota sells nothing that goes on the roof so as to not mess with the coefficient of drag (0.9 it used to be when I sold them). So much for your savings!

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[gdcruse]

The batteries create their own environmental problems that are not addressed.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

That is very true - disposal is a huge issue that people don't seem to think of. Great Point!

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[flash]

we tried yesterday to find something that would allow us to use the HOV lane. what they don't tell you in all the ads is that at real freeway speeds, the power gets used up pretty quickly. for example, a 90 mile range on an electric car at 65mph drops to 50 miles at 80. that gets pretty dicey. it consequently eliminated all of the small electric cars for us.



then we looked at bigger SUVs. hybrids don't have towing capacity, and on gas lacked power. both drive systems were inadequate, and there was no cost savings, after factoring in the markup on being a hybrid.



he problem is that there is too little motivation for development, and the public expects something unreasonable. i am right there. i expect to be able to drive 80mph. that mentality has to change if we are to get anything going. the manufacturers must be forced to increase the ratio of zero emissions cars to the other. it's not about average fuel economy. it's about getting off gasoline. as long as they are allowed to make the gas guzzlers, we won't ever get what we really need.



and i totally agree about the batteries. that is the biggest stumbling block. first, we need to make them here, and not overseas. that will dramatically reduce the footprint. then, we need to develop other batteries, and not keep working with the crap we have now. that takes development money, and it needs to come from the manufacturers. this is where the government needs to step in and force them to do it.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Batteries do get used up quick that's a fact. Just watch how long it takes your camera flash to recycle as the batteries age.



I don't think that hybrids or electrics will ever be much beyond commuter cars for local city driving. I don't think the share option will work here either - where you use a car for a while, stop at a space, plug it in and someone else uses the car next. Americans are too selfish and inconsiderate. Don't believe me, go to the grocery store and see just how many people can't push their shopping cart more than a few feet from their car after they empty it. They won't even put it in the cart return when they are parked next to it.



I am not planning a hybrid anytime soon. They are ugly, they can't tow anything and again, I can buy a lot of gas for the cost. If everyone maintained their vehicle properly, combined trips, and were conscious of their spending, there would be a lot less waste and a tank of gas would go much farther.

They are trying to get the train to run and stop in Titusville. You should hear the angst against it. People say no one will ride it - you can't commute on it, you can't do a day trip on it, it's too expensive...yada yada...The train has not stopped here for passengers since 1968. If we don't get it now, there will be 4 trains a day flying by with people waving at us.



There needs to be a better public transportation network designed. More work done over the web so people don't have to commute and more efficient personal vehicles produced.



Again they are working on electrics and LP vehicles, but I have not seen reliable data saying they are actually cheaper alternatives.



Flash, maybe you just need to tap into the homeless market and hire a guy for a trip through the HOV lane. I am sure they work cheap and it might not be that bad. At least you would have someone different to talk to daily.

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[Cloud9...68]

I'm not a huge fan of hybrids either, but of the available models, I like the Chevy Volt the best. It can go around 40 miles on battery power alone, after which a small motor that charges the batteries kicks in, giving a total range of about 300 miles. So, you pretty much get the best of both worlds. The trunk space is still pretty small, but it's nice and square, so it's relatively useful. The batteries do take up a fair amount of the passenger space, limiting it to four seats, but that's enough for most people 95% of the time. Chevrolet has cut the price to where it's now halfway reasonable, when you factor in the gas savings. Even with the price cut, they haven't sold very well, though, indicating the public's resistance to something new, but hopefully its sales will make steady gains. Not sure it's ever going to be profitable for GM, though, given its steep development costs. Unfortunately (and I'm afraid I disagree with you on this, Inked), this just illustrates how difficult it is to significantly increase efficiency while giving the public a package they are willing to buy.



But I totally agree cars like the Panamera hybrid are ridiculous.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Part of my anti Volt interest is it is a Chevy.



The first Ford hybrids were just tech that was bought from Toyota. So when you bought a Ford Hybrid you were getting tech that was several years old. I am sure this lessened their development costs and got them in the hybrid game faster, but the customer was misled. They may be more up to speed now and using their own tech I don't know.



Won't buy a Ford either.



I still am not convinced that the offset of not buying gas is going to be equal or greater than that of my electric bill from charging the car every day. Plus the cost of the car...If I had to absolutely buy a car, then that comes out of the equation, but I don't have to buy a car right now.



THEN... I left the grill out last night, what happens when I forget to plug the dammed car in at night - I don't go to work the next day! "Oh sorry boss, I will be late today, I forgot to charge my car. OR, I drove all day, then have to get some where fast, I plugged the car in for an hour, and I need to get to the hospital....does the battery have a memory?



I don't think it is a resistance just to new stuff, I think there are other legitimate concerns here.

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[Cloud9...68]

Forgetting to plug in a hybrid won't leave you stranded - it will just run on gas, rather than electricity. And the cost of electricity is peanuts compared to the cost of gas, especially during off-peak hours.



But yes, there are a lot of factors to consider when buying a car, and for most people, a hybrid doesn't make economic sense. A recent test result surprises me, though, Consumer Reports recently ran a test on one of the original Priuses - the car was something like ten years old - and it performed pretty much like it did when it was new in terms of gas mileage and acceleration. I thought the expected lifetime of the batteries was in the 7 - 9 year range. So at least battery lifetime doesn't seem to be a big problem. Eventual disposal of the batteries, on the other hand, could be pretty problematic. So many pros and cons to this stuff...

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Cloud,



I was talking about the Volt - It is the true electric...



When I sold Toyotas, the life expectancy on the battery was like 10 years, but they had no hard data. The original replacement cost was predicted to be around 10K.

My friend just replaced his and it was around or under 5K - Still you better add that to the cost of the car when you buy it. I know the battery recycle business is huge, but I don't know how the hybrid batteries fit in there.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='Inkedupfatboy' timestamp='1385501463' post='152878']

Cloud,

I was talking about the Volt - It is the true electric...

[/quote]

Actually, the Volt isn't a pure electric - it's a serial hybrid. The batteries will go about 40 miles on a full charge, after which a small gas engine kicks in to charge the batteries, giving a range comparable to a regular car (about 300 miles). The unique thing about it is that the gas engine never drives the wheels, which is probably why people think it's a pure electric.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Still don't want.

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[Cloud9...68]

Judging by their sales, you're not alone...

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