[Cloud9...68]

Sorry if this ends up posting twice, but I just wrote one on this topic, and it vanished into the bowels of cyberspace! Anyway, as I've stated in the thread on my car's hesitation problem, I'm seeing arcing along my plug wires, so I need to order a new set. Someone on 968.net offered me a spare set of his, but in case he can't find them, or this falls through for some reason, I was wondering what kind of experiences people have had. I for one definitely wouldn't recommend Nology, based on what I've gone through!



I recently read a do's and don'ts report on the 944/968 series that strongly recommended staying with the stock wires, but I'm not sure if this means sticking with the original Beru's (if they're even still available), or just staying with the carbon-based type of wire. I've seen a wide range of prices. Sunset, who's usually very reasonable, quoted me $230(!) for a factory set, while Paragon has a set of Bosch replacements for $104, and RS Barn advertised a set of magnecore competition wires for $74.95 (I assume that's for the set; if it's per wire, I'm afraid I'm going to have to pass...). I just want to kill the flashing and sparking, and I want it to stay gone! Thanks.

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[flash]

if youstill ahve the problem after chanign the coil, almost any 8mm suppression core wire will be fine - it would be different if we were going from 7mm to 8mm, but we already have 8mm



while the offer of a "spare" set sounds great, i would not use a used set of wires - yours were fairly new, and you have a problem - there is no guarantee you won't have the same problem with another used set - if they are new (never installed), then fine, grab them



i am about to change mine too, just because they have not been changed since i bought the car, and i now have over 20k on them, with no idea when or if they have been changed, and more importantly, this is the 3rd set of plugs i have installed on them - nothing wrong with them, but i typically change them every other plug set change, just to insure that i don't have a problem, but screwed up and forgot to order them



i don't know anything about the magnacore wires, but i'll look into that - i had planned on the paragon set myself, unless i can find the ends to make my own out of a raw accel set

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[Tom in Austin]

I got a set from Vertex in Miami for a little less than $100 ... not sure they were Beru but they fit well and as far as I know work well

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[BruceWard]

I paid $155 for a blue set from Paragon. I am happy with them.

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[flash]

blue works - what brand are they? did they come complete with the right ends, right length and everything?

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[Etnier]

The Paragon cables are correct as to length and connectors, but lack the insulating sleeves you'll see threaded onto the factory cables as they pass over the engine.

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[BruceWard]

The ends, the length and everything else was correct.







They can be found at http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/kb_09-002.htm

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='Etnier' date='Jul 5 2005, 02:39 PM']The Paragon cables are correct as to length and connectors, but lack the insulating sleeves you'll see threaded onto the factory cables as they pass over the engine.

[right][post="6895"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



The ones at this link (for $103.61) appear to have insulating sleeves.

Paragon-products.com

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[flash]

i like the blue - i'll have to look at the insulating sleeve thing to see if there is an issue



bruce, what did you do about it?

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[BruceWard]

The blue cable is larger in diameter than the factory Beru cable which I assume is due to thicker insulation avoiding the need for the sleeve.



I trust Jason, Chuck and the team at Paragon to provide us with quality products.

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[flash]

not complaining or doubting for a minute - just being lazy and not wanting to have to reinvent the wheel



most of the time i get exactly what i am looking for from paragon - they have always been very easy to deal with even when i have had a problem with an order - that's really all you can ask for - nothing negative to say about them at all - they continue to get plenty of my money

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[Cloud9...68]

OK, I just ordered the black wires with the insulating sleeves from Paragon. I also like the blue ones, but after my experience with the Nology's, I think I'll stick with what is as close to stock as possible. Thanks for all the advice; everybody wish me luck that this fixes my problem. I need all the positive karma I can get!

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[flash]

cool - give me a buzz after you've done the compression check

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[Cloud9...68]

If the new plug wires fix the hesitation (along with, of course, the arcing along the wires), and the car runs as strong as before this problem started, I won't do a compression test until it's time to replace the plugs. I just don't like the idea of taking the plugs in and out unless it's absolutely necessary. Of course, if it's still not running right, I'll go ahead and do a leakdown test to make sure it's not a sealing problem.



I drove it to work yesterday, and this really underscored how much the hesitation is a function of the ambient, as opposed to the operational, temperature. On the way to work (a good 35 minute drive), with the temperature in the mid-seventies, the hesitation was hardly noticeable unless I really stomped on it, while on the way home in 100 degrees, it was miserable. I could barely pull away from rest without careful throttle manipulation to keep it from stumbling and sputtering. I really think it's something external, like the plug wires, a ground connection, or maybe a sensor, as opposed to something like the head gasket or rings which will achieve roughly the same temperature independent of the ambient, but at this point, I wouldn't bet a nickel on anything.

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[flash]

hmmm - i'd spend the 10 minutes if only to check the condition of the plugs and rest my mind about the compression of the engine

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[BruceWard]

Why would you not want to pull the plugs and look at them?



Since the plug wires have been arcing is it not a good idea to replace the plugs and possibly the coil?

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[Greimann]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' date='Jul 5 2005, 08:16 PM']I drove it to work yesterday, and this really underscored how much the hesitation is a function of the ambient, as opposed to the operational, temperature. 

[right][post="6918"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

To narrow down the sensor list, the only device capable of reading ambient temperature is the air flow meter. It will essentially tell the computer to lean out the mixture accordingly to warmer temperature. It may be something as simple as a corroded connector plug.



Of course replacing the arcing plug wires is also a super idea and they may be the total cure, but keep the air flow meter near the top of the list.



Covering the basics like examining the plugs, though should have been #1,

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[KensCab]

I think you would be wise to change the plugs when replacing the wires, then there would be no question, and you could 'check' the removed plugs.

Just my $.02 worth... (from someone that has had his head under a hood since he was 14, crap that makes it 43 years...) damn, I'm gitin old....

...gonna go take a nap now....

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[Cloud9...68]

Thanks for all the inputs. Checking the plugs was one of the first things I did, and they were astonishingly textbook perfect - light tan in color, no hint of glazing, pitting, fouling, or any other untoward symptoms. The previous owner says he replaced the plugs when he put in the Nology wires, which was about 5000 miles ago. I would think the fact that current is being bled away from the plugs due to a problem with the wires would tend to INCREASE the plugs' life rather than decrease it, though it may tend to cause them to foul, which should take care of itself once the arcing is fixed. I also swapped the coil with a neighbor's (he had not one, but two extra Porsche coils, so I took the one that looked the best), and it had zero impact. I don't think I mentioned previously that the connection the coil wire made with the coil was very poor. I expanded the connector on the wire to try to make it more snug, but I'm not sure it fit any better. I suspect this was the source of the arcing near the coil, as opposed to the coil itself.



I'm probably making too big a deal of this, but I just don't like the idea of pulling the plugs unless I have a good reason to suspect a problem with them, or with the engine's compression. I always use anti-seize and torque the plugs to the recommended value, but I can't vouch for people who've worked on the car previously, so I don't want to tempt fate by unscrewing and reinstalling the plugs unnecessarily in this multi-zillion dollar aluminum head (OK, I'm exaggerating a tad).



My plan is to confirm the connector plug for the air flow sensor is clean (per Dave G's suggestion), and clean it if it's isn't, and install the wires. If this fixes the hesitation, (and of course I'll confirm the arcing is gone), I'll stop there. If the hesitation is still there, I'll take it to someone to do a leakdown test to rule out serious internal engine problems, and of course inspect the plugs again. If there's the slightest hint of a problem with the plugs, I'll go ahead and replace them, though a problem with the plugs doesn't fit the ambient temperature observation. Maybe I'll try my neighbor's other coil as well. If none of this takes care of it, I guess it's time to take it to a mechanic.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='Greimann' date='Jul 6 2005, 08:15 AM']To narrow down the sensor list, the only device capable of reading ambient temperature  is  the air flow meter. It will essentially tell the computer to lean out the mixture accordingly to warmer temperature. It may be something as simple as a corroded connector plug. 



Covering the basics like examining the plugs, though should have been #1,

[right][post="6929"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Your theory about the MAF makes sense; the platinum wire is heated to a given temperature (can't remember how hot), and as it is cooled by the air rushing past, a voltage is applied to the wire to keep its temperature at the target value. On a hot day, or after the under-hood temperature gets above a certain point, the sensor thinks there's less air flowing past the wire, so less voltage is sent to the wire, which tells the computer to lean out the mixture. Or something like that. I had discounted the MAF because of the passing flash code test result, but who knows, maybe the MAF is marginal, and squeaked by the criteria of the flash codes test. I'll clean up the terminals, and if the new plug wires don't do the trick, I'll go through the MAF tests described in the manual, minus the test with System Tester 9288 (anybody have one of these, by the way)?



As for the spark plugs, checking them was one of the first things I did (they were perfect). Thanks for the suggestions; all help is much appreciated. I just hope the community can benefit from my experience.

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