[Cloud9...68]

Argh... Literally the day I put insurance back on the car, I started hearing the dreaded jet engine noise from the back, so I'm 99.9% sure I need a new pinion bearing. I have the rear seat and all the rear panels, including the one on the luggage compartment floor, out, so there's plenty of transmission noise back there, but this is different - I can hear a slight whine starting at about 20 mph, it increases with car speed, and it gets really noticeable starting at about 40 mph. I didn't drive it any faster than that - I was on my way back from the shop to get the AC recharged, and with no registration, proof of insurance, or inspection sticker (was planning to get all of the above over the next few days), I was strictly following the speed limits.



So, assuming it is the pinion bearing, I have several questions:



1. Could somebody explain where the pinion bearing is located (somewhere near the pinion gear, I would assume), or better yet, post a diagram that shows it? I can't find anything under the name "pinion bearing" in either the WSM or the PET, so I assume it must be listed under a different name.



2. How does the pinion bearing differ from the carrier bearing? The mechanic who installed the Guard differential for the previous owner told me he replaced the carrier bearing, but didn't mention anything about the pinion bearing. This individual doesn't work on transaxles himself, so I'm not sure he has the terminology correct.



3. Are any special tools needed for the job, or just a certain familiarity with the job? Going a step further, is there any reason any honest, competent, experienced transmission specialist couldn't do this job, just following the procedure in the WSM?



4. I've never worked on a transmission before, but I've torn apart just about every other part of this car now. I would like to pull the transaxle and take it to somebody to replace the bearing, but I was wondering if I could save a little more money by doing as much of the grunt work myself as possible. Could somebody point me to the section in the manual tha describes how to remove the pinion bearing (or whatever it's called in the manual), so I can break it down as far as reasonable (which would also cut down on the weight of the parts I'd have to haul to the shop)?



Thanks.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

I just went through this...No I don't believe most people can do this themselves...It requires the complete dis-assembly o the transaxle and cost me quite a bit. $2700.00 cash to be exact. Search for my thread titled "Need a Transaxle - Yikes - Anyone got one for sale?" I have photos posted of my transaxle torn apart

Options are taking it out and sending it to one of several shops via pallet and truck for rebuild...finding a local transmission shop for rebuild, or replacing it. I found one transaxle for sale used and they wanted $2900 because they knew what they had and only offered a 90 day warranty. My shop did all parts and labor for the 2700 and gave me a two year warranty.



Check out the R.L. thread, http://members.R.L..org/martin/ for more info...I was hoping my car would be clear of this issue with only 44K on the odo, but as soon as we got it running, it was screaming. It has to be addressed as soon as you reasonably can as it will tear everything up. It took about a week to get parts from Germany...



Here is the shop that did mine and I am totally satisfied with the job they did and how they treated my car..http://precisiontransmissioninc.com/



PM me if you want more info...



Ed

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[Cloud9...68]

Thanks - yes, I followed your thread closely. My overwhelming preference would be to go the route you did - I find it very hard to believe that this isn't something that any competent transmission or machine shop couldn't do, even one that has never worked on a 968 before (which would be about 99% of all shops), as long as the procedure is well enough covered in the WSM. I did some searching last night, and ran across a thread from a couple of years ago started by a guy who removed and dismantled the transaxle himself, and had an experienced transmission guy to the actual install and set-up of the bearing, for a total of under $500 (http://www.968forums.com/topic/12038-pic...msearch__1). No way, no how, can I afford to sink anywhere near $2700 into this - that would come close to obliterating my track budget, which was the whole purpose of the 2+ year project I've just completed on this car. I'm sure the problem is strictly confined to the pinion bearing - the transmission shifts beautifully - it snicks from gear to gear with Miata-like precision.



So you had to order the part from Germany, huh? Ugh... I just sold our "spare" car, which means I need to get the 968 up and running quick, and I don't want to take the risk of driving it with the pinion bearing screaming.

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[KRAG50]

As you do the teardown, take some good pictures, I have a tranny setting on my work bench with a bad 1st/2nd gear syncro hub that I'd like to repair myself. I've not had much luck finding DYI's on this transnmission. I've even searched the Audi sites with no luck.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='KRAG50' timestamp='1375372875' post='146336']

As you do the teardown, take some good pictures, I have a tranny setting on my work bench with a bad 1st/2nd gear syncro hub that I'd like to repair myself. I've not had much luck finding DYI's on this transnmission. I've even searched the Audi sites with no luck.

[/quote]

I wish I could get to that point, and would be happy to take pictures if I do, but if you haven't been able to find any info as to how to do the teardown, I doubt I will, and given that I've never worked on a transaxle before, I haven't the foggiest clue as to how to go about tearing one apart, what tools I would need, etc. A guy removed his own pinion bearing a couple of years ago (I just edited my latest post to include a link to his thread), but he didn't provide any details, and he hasn't been active on this forum since April of last year.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

The used unit was $2900 and anther $600 to take the old one out and reinstall it.

I have seen quotes for a pinion bearing replacement of well over $3500 bucks.



The issue is the preload on the shims and needing to have specific tools. It is not something I would ever think about trying.



Actually getting the parts from Germany took less than a week. They replaced every seal, bearing and race that was in the unit. I figure I got off cheap at $2700

I also figured he did it right because no one in their right mind want to do this kind of work again for free in the two years the unit has been warrantied for.



The place in CA was a similar price and I had to pay to remove it, strap it to a pallet, pay to ship it to Ca, pay for the rebuild, pay to ship it home and pay to re-install it. - This was by far my most cost effective way to go and (although others disagree it means anything) I still have the original transaxle.



I am sorry to hear another is sharing this pain...I agree it is too expensive, but without doing it the car is useless. I don't know if you will find a workaround.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Ed

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[flash]

it's not the what to do that is the problem, as much as it is knowing what to do. work like this is a bit more art than science.



this is not something that just any tranny shop can do. the pre-load is the key. that's why it fails in the first place. i've heard way too many horror stories about shops that changed out the bearing, but failed to correct the pre-load issue, so the new bearing failed not long after.



make sure whoever does it knows what they are doing.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

I talked to the guy who did mine. I stressed out over this a lot...He has done lots of Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari and others - 35K transmissions in the last 17 or 18 years. I don't think you stay in business that long if you don't know what you are doing. We will see if his work holds up. I have two years for a freebie.

The car is unbearable to drive without fixing it and catastrophic failure is imminent.



The photo shows the worst of the pits, the rust is since it came out of the transaxle...all the rest looked okay, but we swapped them out regardless.

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[flash]

yeah - i'm sure there are a lot of shops that can do this. it's not rocket science, but you have to be very technical.



figuring out which shop knows what to do is the issue. as we find them, we list them.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

So far - mine is solid. If you want the info, let me know.

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[Cloud9...68]

Agreed. I will definitely only take it to someone who completely understands the preload issue. But I cringe at the thought of shipping this beast. Hoping to find someone locally who can do it like Inked did.



But it looks like a long-term down situation any way you slice it, because until the transaxle is torn apart, there's no way of knowing if there are any issues besides the pinion bearing.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Yes, even after all the homework, the guy driving the car - he said he was 99% sure it was the pinion bearing, but was also emphatic that he did not have x-ray eyes and could/would not be sure until he popped it open. So far everything seems great. Only time will tell. I hope you find someone close, but if not, maybe I will come visit Austin....I can make you a pickup and delivery deal - lol

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[Cloud9...68]

Yeah, before I yank the transaxle, I want to be as sure as I can be that it's the pinion bearing. What I would like to do is put the rear end of the car up on jack stands, start the car, and have an assistant get in, and "drive" it until it starts making the noise (20 mph seems to be about all it takes), while I listen for the source of the noise, using an automotive stethoscope. But his procedure makes me a little nervous, as I need to make sure I



1) Don't die as a result of the car falling on me, and

2) Don't drive the car through my family room after it falls off the jack stands, before the assistant can slam it into neutral, after crushing me, of course.



Need to come up with some sort of very sturdy support structure to catch the car in the (admittedly unlikely) event the jack stands fail...

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[Inkedupfatboy]

oh that all sounds like a bad idea - take it to your local guy and have him put it on the lift - that is what mine did for me...

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[Cloud9...68]

Except the local guy I have in mind is a machine shop, and they don't have a lift. I think if I put multiple redundant supports under the car (four jack stands, plus both of my floor jacks) under the various lift points on the car, and securely chock the front tires, I'll be fine. If you see a sudden absence of posts from me, you'll know my plan failed catestrophically <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> .

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Yikes and Yikes....You could be okay, but I would still see if you can find someone with a lift, just to be safer.

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[Cloud9...68]

I just got off the phone with Andrea from Sunset to try to determine the availability of the pinion bearing, but found that doing this is not straightforward, because, as I mentioned above, there doesn't appear to be a part named "pinion bearing" in the parts catalog. She looked through the diagrams, and the closest thing she was able to find, based on my description, which is based on a limited understanding of what this bearing looks like and where it's located in relation to the other transaxle components, is part number 999 059 064 00. But her diagram showed a pair of these parts, and I've always heard the pinion bearing referred to in the singular, so I'm not sure she got the right part(s). The cost is $56 apiece, and they are available in the US. Could somebody who has gone through this see if they could confirm if this is the right part number, and if not, let me know the correct one? Thanks.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

the master rebuild kit for the entire works was 968.00 - hmm - I missed that before...

I will try to locate a parts breakdown in my files...

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Here is a scan of my pinion bearing - I got a box of parts back with 4 bearings, 3 races, two covered plugs that had to be pried out and a seal.

The number on this bearing is 568082

the bearing is labeled

K B / FAG /Germany

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[Inkedupfatboy]

I got two boxes back with my parts here is both sides of the first one - I don't know which box went with which bearing

here is a scan of the second bearing that was not identified as a pinion bearing but was also replaced - number 30210A

I hope this is helping..not sure

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