[Lim Yong]

Just facts, Obama hired the (ex) general to run the VA. The same general who stated that we need 400,000 troops to

be able to run Iraq.....



Ipbesq - What a great idea, tax consumption........we would reduce allot of waste

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[Chris Vais]

Back ontopic more or less. Talked to my son this past weekend and learned that he has been driving a loaner Series 3 BMW Turbo diesel while his gasoline powered 5 series is in the shop. He has been getting close 40 mpg on the freeway and 30+ on city streets. He said the car has more than adequate power and handles as well as any other 3 series he has driven.

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[ds968]

and on topic - when either hybrid or fully electric vehicles will be capable of ALL of the following : 1) beautiful, sporty design ( at the very least, an Infinity G 35 / 37S-like shape ) 2) at least 1,000 miles range before need for a charge , 3) quick , and 4) a decent exhaust sound ( again, comparable to that of a G 35 or G 37s, tone or better .. ) I will be the first in line to buy one !

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='ds968' timestamp='1326823855' post='120613']

and on topic - when either hybrid or fully electric vehicles will be capable of ALL of the following : 1) beautiful, sporty design ( at the very least, an Infinity G 35 / 37S-like shape ) 2) at least 1,000 miles range before need for a charge , and 3) a decent exhaust sound ( again, comparable to that of a G 35 or G 37s, tone or better .. ) I will be the first in line to buy one !

[/quote]

No problem! Oh, did I forget to mention that that will be an MSRP of $180K, please? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Chris Vais]

Somewhere, I have a recording of one of the best automotive engine sounds of all time, a mid 1960s BRM H-16 Formula 1 engine. When the movie Grand Prix was released there was also a vinyl recording released that had the movie soundtrack but also recordings of the different Formula 1 engines.



So when you by your electric car you just have to mount a couple of speakers on the back and turn up the volume. Although, an electric car that sounds like it has a 5 speed transmission transmission might give you away.

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[ds968]

" No problem! Oh, did I forget to mention that that will be an MSRP of $180K, please? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> "



Yup, no kidding - the Fisker Karma at approx $ 120k does not come close to the range or sound requirements but not bad in the looks category.. even $ 180 k might be low for all of the above : -) Although give it a decade, remember how much flat plasma TVs were when they first came out . and now they're about 1/10 of the price ? One can only hope cars follow the same path.

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[craigawoodman]

DS - unfortunately the rare earth materials required for the batteries will always make them expensive. Unless there is a gam changing technology discovered - the costs will remain high (possibly higher as demand goes up and outstrips supply). Otherwise there needs to be induction loops built into every road (could actually be the HV transmission wires under the road rather than above it - so you use the inducted magnetic field) - but then there will be the possible health issues of being in a high magnetic field for extended periods).

More efficient electric motors - well unless once again, we redesign electric motors radically - but this is 100 year old technology - not likely.

I don't see a solution on the horizion yet. I agree with Rap - the internal combustion engine and improvements to it will most likely still be the solution going forward - barring something from left field.

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[flash]

the lab i used for the CARB certification of the SC kit was the one who did the development of that car. having now seen the insides and workings, and knowing what that car weighs, i have less than zero interest in it. besides, i think it is as fugly as the maserati.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yeah, somehow I find the Karma underwhelming as well. Not particularly fast, not a great range, unspectacular fuel economy, pretty tight on the inside (only a four-seater- iirc), and function-follows-form styling. Seems like a look-at-me toy for wealthy people who want their conspicuous consumption to be seen as environmentally friendly.



As far as Craig's comments on the likelihood of the cost/efficiency hurdles of electric cars being overcome anytime soon, I agree with this as well. I recently read a great analogy for the effort to develop viable alternative fuels - people tend to think of it as analogous to the Apollo program - just throw enough money and the right resources at it, and in a few years, boom! - the goal is achieved. A more appropriate analogy is the War on Cancer that was declared by Nixon in the 70s. Like this latter "war", the path to pursue a suitable alternative to petroleum based fuels is highly uncertain and multi-faceted, with no guarantee of success. There are likely to be a lot of false starts, promising leads that end up fizzling, and many years (most likely decades) of small, incremental improvements, quite possibly ending up with not one, but multiple solutions, all with their merits and drawbacks. So yes, I think the smartest thing we can do in the short term is to focus heavily on dramatically improving what we have (and hybrids can be a part of this) while the research continues for a long-term replacement for gasoline and diesel.

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[ds968]

no doubt, looks are subjective.. could not help noticing the lines and curves here, I think she's looking for batteries .. err, I meant the battery ..



   

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[bombfactory]

I will consider a hybrid or electric as soon as one has at least the same performance and range I've got now. I think this is the barrier to entry for a lot of people (that most of our electricity still comes from burning coal really bothers me though). Until that happens, my next car ideally should get at least 30 mpg through the use of direct injection and a turbo, or even a diesel, and get to 60 in about five seconds. Tall order? It's taken quite a while (too long!), but great mileage and real performance are finally starting to come in the same package.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='bombfactory' timestamp='1326845834' post='120637']

I will consider a hybrid or electric as soon as one has at least the same performance and range I've got now. I think this is the barrier to entry for a lot of people (that most of our electricity still comes from burning coal really bothers me though). Until that happens, my next car ideally should get at least 30 mpg through the use of direct injection and a turbo, or even a diesel, and get to 60 in about five seconds. Tall order? It's taken quite a while (too long!), but great mileage and real performance are finally starting to come in the same package.

[/quote]



Yep, it's already starting. Maybe not the best example, but the new M5 is faster than the one it replaces, yet gets a whopping 30% better gas mileage. OK, so its mileage goes from abysmal to merely lousy, but progress is progress, right? Maybe a better example is the new 3 Series, with its small turbo engine. The new Mazda "Sky-Active" is an amazing engine as well - 13:1 compression ratio, yet it runs on 87 octane, and get 26 mpg in the city in the relatively heavy new CX-5 small SUV. And this is just the tip of the iceberg - look for some remarkable vehicles coming down the pick soon. I just hope the manufacturers can hold the line on prices and keep these cars within the range of the average consumer.

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[Cloud9...68]

Sorry, double post (not sure how...)

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[bombfactory]

Cloud I had this crazy idea that in a couple of years, once the resale values dip enough, I'd replace my daily driver E36 M3 with a used E90 M3. Then I took a look at the gas mileage figures for the new M3: 15 and 20 mpg. Nope, can't hang with that, no matter how awesome the car is. I think a 335 is what I'll be looking at now.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yeah, way off topic, but a V8 in a 3-Series is just wrong. And I bet the real-world mpg around town is closer to 12. Thankfully, even thought the E92 M3 is in many ways a spectacular car, I also think it's the last of a breed, and I say good riddance, as there's no excuse for this kind of mileage with today's technology in a relatively small car.

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[rhudeboye]

Well, I got the car and I love it. Gets better MPG then my 330I, while being both bigger and faster. Quite impressive. It also carries more creature comforts and safety equipment then the BMW. However it's not as fun to drive. I do like driving it but it lacks the sharp response and overall tight feel that BMW is known for. I did run against an S class yesterday from a traffic. I got him by a car length as we both backed off around 80.



I’m really feelin this car.

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