[flash]

so, dan finally decides to go ahead and upgrade his suspension - doing the normal stuff - konis up front coilovers all around - M030 bars - yada yada



in keeping with dan's desire to maintain a comfortable ride, we chose very reasonable spring rates front and rear, shocks that would be easily adjusted, and even stuck with the rubber sway bar bushings



we ordered all the parts - most everything is working out ok (still gathering a few pieces to make the rear coilovers work right) - i expected some issues along the way as some of this had never been done before - i'm actually having some parts made for this conversion, and even that looks good



what i did not expect was trouble with the OEM parts ordered from porsche



we ordered the bushings from sunset - we confirmed the part numbers with 3 sources first - the parts came in today - the bushings for the front came in the standard little porsche parts baggies, and are correct - the ones for the rear did not come in baggies or have any porsche tags on them - they did have the part number on the part itself - it is the same part number in the pet and the other parts list i have, as well as at sunset - one would think that this would be correct - it does not look like any mistakes were made anywhere in the ordering or fulfilling process



however, the part is the wrong size! - the I.D. measures 17mm - the bar is 19mm - this creates a huge gap that will not allow the bushing to fit within the confines of the bracket - if i cram it in there, the bushing will bind and prematurely wear, as well as have a preload all the time



so, for those of you out there that think that OEM parts are flawless, or the PET is always right, guess again - either the PET is wrong or the manufacturer blew it - either way, we got a part that does not work, and now get to try to sort that out before wednesday

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[Mark]

PET has gotten me a couple of times, ordered an interior piece and it came in with the right part number but was a gasket for something under the hood. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

ok - more research - all of the bushings are the same, and have been for some time - it turns out that this looks like it's just a bad design (yeah, that's never happened on this car before)



the bushing has designed in preload - if you cram the bracket down onto the bushing, it will in fact close the gap - however, this creates a serious resistance to rotation - this is exactly NOT what you want in a sway bar bushing - it should rotate freely - however, that would then also dictate the need for a stop of some sort, to maintain the bar in a centered position left to right - porsche, in their infinite wisdom, seems to have determined that we didn't care as much about predictable handling, as we did the $5 it would have cost to weld a tab onto the swaybar



i hate beancounter car designers - this kind of "nickle and dime" thing makes me nuts



i will modify the bushing to slide freely and add stops to keep the bar centered

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[ds968]

while thrilled to be the beneficiary of a customized set up which will function just the way it should, I am equally furious that someone has to actually modify OEM parts ( and Porsche parts at that ! ) to better them so as not to have to compromise to a lesser than ideal performance and wear. There is a line somewhere between maximizing profit and keeping one's repuation for quality that was obviously blurred.. makes you wonder how many pieces of crap they jammed into the Cayman ( mechanical and/or coachmanship ) ?!

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[gryphon]

I was similarly disappointed with the OEM trunk lid dampers I purchased for my last Cab. A slight lateral bump and the balls came out of the sockets.



Tom

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[Ryan]

The Weltmeister adjustable rear bar I put on uses hose clamps around the bar to hold its position laterally. Seems to work and can be put on after the fact. Give it a try.

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[TheMirror]

If the bushing has designed in preload, then perhaps there was a reason for it? I agree, in widely accepted theory, preload = bad, but ya never know....the did design the car after all, and they do design pretty good cars, so perhaps a method to the perceived madness? No way to know.

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[flash]

yes - the reason was economics - designing in preload to a swaybar, especially using a rubber bushing, which changes rate over time, has nothing to do with anything but being cheap - it was the same thing with all the control arm bushings - they are a bad design too, but they were also cheap - they built the car with an average touring car consumer, who could not afford a 911, in mind - they did not do it with a sport enthusiast in mind



it really is a fairly cheaply made car, and not really any better than any other, and in fact, inferior to many japanese cars when it comes to design - i am really baffled as to how so many people blindly accept bad design as "good design" just because of who did it - that's good marketing for you



now enter those who will say, "but porsches last much longer", as if to say that it is superior design that makes it so - the answer to that "sure, if you use a lot more sheet metal, and make it so expensive to drive that people garage them a lot, and take them to the shop a lot more to protect the investment, of course they will last longer"



remember, these are the same guys who designed the beetle and the rabbit, and in fact used some of the same parts on the cars - funny how the attitude changes though, once you apply that name



i am singularly underwhelmed by the design of this suspension - but then, it is over 30 years old - fortunately much of it is correctable or at least improveable

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[TheMirror]

This brings up several interesting points! As stated before, I certainly agree that designed-in preload raises an eyebrow. I just wonder if in R&D that they used this smaller bushing and found that it functioned just as well, or very close to, and that there wasn't a need to engineer a new bushing or tabs on the swaybar.....which likely would have created a whole new R&D test sequence that would stray way beyond welding $5 tabs on every bar.



We need access to our own factory 968 engineer! I have more questions!



I will disagree though, with the fact that its inferior to many Japanese cars in design though. I assume you're talking about current or recent Japanese cars, and not ones made from 1992-1995. Sit in any period Mitsubishi, Nissan, or Toyota from that era and I guarantee it will seem quite low rent. Even Acura Legends and 300ZXs from that era come off that way, only the NSX and Supra come to mind that have comparable build quality.



You can find cheap parts on ANY car, from Lada up to and through Bentleys. For example check out some of the switchgear on 80's and early 90's Ferraris. Or, take a look at the suspension design of the original Lexus LS400, there's some pretty basic stuff under there. E36 BMWs like to rip the rear subframes right off of their body mountings. An ugly problem that took Turner Motorsports to engineer a fix.



Yes, the 968 suspension design is basically 30 years old, which makes it all the more amazing that this car handles so well with the perceived shortcomings.



I'm not arguing that Porsche doesn't cut corners, they do. All manufacturers do (see Lamborghini Gallardo convertable top operation).



However at the end of the day, Porsche does design very good cars. Its not just the name, no?



Cheers,

-Mirror

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[flash]

actually, i have found the engineering (design) of japanese cars to be generally superior, dating back to the 70s - keep in mind, i am talking about engineering and not build quality - materials selection could be better on japanaese cars (though i suppose that really is a part of the design), but that is why they can build them for less (though not as much less as you might think - porsche just charges a bigger markup)



some of the new ones just blow porsche away - have you compared them lately? porsche has gone cheap onthe interiors whereas the japanese have gone to the enth degree to upgrade many of theirs



no basically about it - 30 years was being kind - the front is from a rabbit and the rear is from a beetle - yes, that does make it impressive that the car does what it does with that in mind



in general i do not like porsches - never have - probably never will - too many years of kicking the snot out of them on the track - i never liked the way they drove - the 968 had the lines i liked, and layout i was looking for (front engine - 2 seat convertible with AC and a big enough trunk) - i would have been fine if it was made by yugo, and frankly being a porsche was a minus for me



while i am not thrilled about everything about the car, i'm not really slagging the car as much as you might think either - i actually like the car, and plan to keep it for a very long time - i am just not bowing to the porsche gods or making any presumptions about porsche parts or OEM purchasing being any better than anything else - that decision is part by part for me



when i am done redesigning everything, i'll have the car i want - not sure how much of it will be porsche though

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[94SilverCab]

I do and always will love my 968....however..



My 1988 Rx-7 Convertible had headrest speakers and a built in wind screen...2 comfort features I would love to have in the 968. Porsche had 4 years to "acquire" those changes from Japanese engineering



Many things about the interioir could have been better laid out ergonomically...like, what's up with mirror switch on the console and adjusting switch on the door? And...having to have the key on to unlock the locks (that one gets me every time.



Every car has a personality, you learn to live with them and love them for what they are (or you can make them become).



Regards,



Jay

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[TheMirror]

Yeah, I think some comfort items like that got short shrift on the 968 due to the dire financial situation in the company at the time. Even with the handful of tack-on interior appointments (heh, like the mirror switch) the car ended up being too expensive for its own good.



Its definitely a car with personality! No question there. I just wish my rear hatch had less "personality".



Best,

-Mirror

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[flash]

lol - this is the kind of thing i am talking about



i fixed the mirror switch and the window switches - the mirror switch now resides next to the mirror adjuster, and the window switches are in the center console



even bmw had ben doing it that way for a decade - how come porsche took so long to catch up? i'd think somebody driving to work one day would have taken notice in their bimmer



but, that is why i bought the car to begin with - i was looking for a platform - i looked at the 968 and said "yeah - that's a car i can tear apart and have fun with"

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