[rl968]

Hey guys,



Haven't had much time to drive my car and have been trying to sell it, but have to admit traffic has been very light over the past year. I've pretty much just stuck to CL, which I realize is pretty limited, though I do also have it in pano. I started at 17,000 and am now at 14,900. I'm interested to see if you guys think I have it priced right. I'd like a fairly quick sale, but don't want to give it away. It rides perfect and is very solid mechanically with a good amount of upgrades. It would take very little to turn it into a full blown race car; its fast and handles incredibly. Equally, it would be a solid performer on the street (just need to put the muffler and cat back on.) Everything works, except a recent minor issue withe AC, (compressor not getting power). It's not a concours car, but is definitely presentable, body is prob 7.5 out if 10.



Here's the ad:



http://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/3870767192.html



Appreciate your (honest) thoughts.



Thanks

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[94SilverCab]

Hi,



I have a few comments, I hope you will take these as constructive:



CL is a very local market, I think you would do better on Cars.com or Autotrader.com to grab a national market.



I would be cautious about a car which is a half-way race car. If you have used it for racing you should say so, how much and how often. If not, you should say that too.



I think you should show pictures of any "flaws" (dash cracks, etc.). If the problems are (as you describe) minor, then there is no harm in showing that a 20 year old car is not showroom perfect and sets the right expectations for an in person inspection.



Clean the engine bay and replace the picture.



4,661 968s sold in North America (2,417 Coupes) for the series from 1992-1995.



Compare your $14,900 against this: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/...3877&Log=0



GLWS,



Jay

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[flash]

a few other comments, also intended to be constructive.:



regarding price, the car seems relatively stock, with high mileage. that puts you in a "bracket" of pricing. it's just the way things are.



the head gasket was changed, but no mention of a valve job. if one was done (and by now it would be likely), it should be mentioned.

given that you obviously track the car, i would specify the condition of the brakes. you say "recent" but then list the belts as 2.5 years old (which makes them getting close to being due again)



given all that, i would say the price is probably high in most people's minds. the market would put a car with that mileage between $9500 and $13k. the few extras and the work done help, but i think you may have difficulty getting past that without listing other already dealt with items that would increase value.



1. i would specify that the 16" rims are silver. it reads like both sets are orange (even though the pic shows them silver.

2. i would specify what type of LSD is in the car.

3. i would definitely specify the condition of all workings (electrical, etc) as well as the condition of the bushings, and if there are any leaks. these are things that dramatically affect the impression the buyer would get about the car



as a side note, i am pretty sure the power steering tensioner is Design 1 Racing, though you may have bought it at RS Barn.



and i agree that cleaning and polishing the engine bay is a must if you want to maximize price. it also shows more attention to maintenance. a dirty engine bay indicates a neglected car.

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[Cloud9...68]

I don't really have a whole lot to add, other than that I tried selling my 968 several years ago. My car had comparable upgrades as yours, 115K miles, and I'd say was in comparable overall condition - mine had a few leaks, and was overall probably not quite in as good condition mechanically as yours, but was maybe a tad nicer cosmetically. Not to sound negative or discouraging, but I finally gave up after getting no takers in the $9K range, and decided to keep it. Now, that was when the economy was weaker than it is today, and overall, it seems that prices on 968s have firmed up some recently. But once a car, particualry a German one, gets much over 100K miles, the sad truth is that the value really plummets, even if it's been well taken care of, and has good maintenance records. My gut feeling is that if you want to sell it, you're going to have to drop the price to the range Flash states, and sadly probably at the low end of that range. But I do absolutely agree that to have any chance of selling it, you're going to have to get nationwide exposure through something like autotrader.com.



Have you been getting many calls, just no offers, or are you just not getting any calls?

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[rl968]

Thanks for the comments, very useful perspective and what I was after. Have received one call to trade for a 300zx. Other than that and the occasional Nigerian scam, nothing else, its been on cl about 60 days. I'll firm up the ad and go national. 13k would be acceptable, 9 would not.



I've only had the car for three years and probably done 15 -20 DEs on it with local pca. I don't drive it on the street and its no longer registered. I bought car with 135k miles, now has 138,000. Max did the head gasket at 137000 miles and valves were fine. It is a well maintained car, no leaks. One thing the track did was expose all the flaws, and they've all been fixed. I've put way more into it then I could ever get back, but my time is pretty limited these days, hence the desire to sell.

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[tamathumper]

I've come to the conclusion that any upgrades to older cars are also "throw-ins", and are viewed by the buying public as akin to an "above ground pool" when buying a home.



Some people will appreciate it's there, but they won't pay more to get it, and most people will simply be put off by it.



My car is loaded with upgrades, but I don't expect they increase the value of the car much, even though collectively they've probably cost me $10,000 or more.

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[flash]

no worries. understand that the market on these cars is all over the map too. you'll see cars going at both ends, and seemingly similar cars, with no reasoning behind the pricing. so, it isn't to say that you can't get what you want. you just may have to wait.



i would definitely add the things i listed, and correct anything needed. have it detailed or do it yourself, but pictures are everything, and a dirty car doesn't sell well.



i would also state clearly that there is no pinion bearing issue (assuming that's true). too many people ask about it, and if you can put that away up front, you're ahead of the game.



i'm surprised the valves were ok at that mileage. usually by that point the compression is down quite a bit, indicating the need. was it already done when you got it? this will be a big one for anybody who knows these cars. we all know what it costs to R&R the head.



by the way, why isn't the car listed here? it's the largest web site in the world for these cars. you're missing a good exposure point.

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[rl968]

The car is listed here, but price was very high. Ill revisit that ad, placed quite a while ago at a crazy price when I was less serious.



no pinion issue.



No service records prior to three years ago, but have a ton since.



I trust max when he tells me what's right and what's wrong, he's done all the heavy work on the car.

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[flash]

No worries



If you are confident that the head is ok I would then list the compression numbers as max would certainly have had to take readings to come to that conclusion. That kind of information will go a long way toward alleviating concerns about mileage

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[Cloud9...68]

This thread really raises the whole issue of dealing with the "disposal" of high mileage 968s. Unfortunately, even if the car has been meticulously and expertly maintained, once it gets to a certain mileage, potential buyers (those who know the car, anyway) start thinking about things like torque tube bearings, transaxle rebuilds, complete engine rebuilds, and other godawful complicated and expensive repairs, which just obliterates the value. Look at Kim Strong's recent sale as an extreme example. We may ultimately all be left with the choice of keeping it forever, giving it away for nothing, really running it into the ground, or converting it to a track car (and then keeping it forever). In my own case, I sometimes wonder what I will do down the road when I may want to move onto something else. Will I be able to even recoup a few percent of the cost of all the mods I've made to the car, even if it ends up being a very competitive race car? I'm guessing no...

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[flash]

unless you plan to actually set it up, race it, and have a log book on it, it will have no value to a racer. nobody wants to get in the middle of somebody else's project car.



modified cars carry forward little to no increase in value, and often are actually lower than stock.



in the end, a high mileage car is a high mileage car. if you find one with up to date maintenance records, you can do ok. but you have to wonder why the seller wouldn't keep it. it is almost always because it falls short in some fashion of what the buyer wants. all too often it is because of the same things we all face with our own cars.



so, back to the topic at hand.



put as much detail into any ad as possible, and address as many questions as you might ask when you are shopping for a car. that will go a long way toward making a potential buyer more comfortable.

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[94'968]

i am pretty sure those are sparco sprint 5 racing seats, not spirits... maybe someone else can confirm that. thought i would point that out!

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[94SilverCab]

More and more, I believe that I will continue to drive mine into the ground and plan on reaping very little at the end...ah, but what memories <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



(keep in mind I'm still 6 years from 100k at my current rate of driving)



Jay

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[Kim]

I gave my 92 6 speed coupe away for $2500. It was all I could get with 386,000 km. I also gave away my 92 tip cab with 73,000 km for $8000. Again, all I could get. But I enjoyed driving them when I had them. I do miss the coupe, it was different from the 911 and a lot of fun to drive. If I had a garage I would have kept it.

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[rl968]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' timestamp='1371592206' post='144548']. We may ultimately all be left with the choice of keeping it forever, giving it away for nothing, really running it into the ground, or converting it to a track car (and then keeping it forever)..[/quote]



The problem with going down the full track route is that the repairs can get very expensive and much more frequent. They are very good street cars.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

For what it is worth, in case you have not seen my comments - I just paid 5K for mine - 44K miles - car was sitting for 5 years. Put 2900.00 into work and parts to get it running, plus tires. Car is now at tranny shop for transaxle rebuild. I will have about 14K invested when all is done. There was a one owner, 95 with 15K on ebay this week - bidding got to 21K and did not hit the dealer reserve, but it looked like a showroom car.

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[flash]

lol - don't take this wrong, but we'll see where you really are when it's all done. far too frequently we find that these cars need more than it looks like at first blush. it often takes a year to sort it out.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

All I need is the transaxle rebuild - everything else has been gone over. The car drives like a dream - After the transaxle it needs aligned. Come on Flash, it only has 44K on the clock - You just wait - I will show you. lol

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[flash]

lol - my blue one only had 22k on it (now just crossed over 60k) and my white one has 22k on it. the blue one was in concours shape, but still needed nearly every bushing replaced when i got it 9 years ago, and the white one is due. all brake lines were shot (you can't tell from the outside). some of the wiring needed some work due to age too. the top on the white car is still original and now some of the the stitches across the top bows are popping, so it is going to be replaced



i'm just saying, i've been watching this for 9 years now. it will run about $20k to get that car truly up and right. you just may not know it for a while.

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[Cloud9...68]

And let me add, when you get the car back from the transaxle shop, take a good look at all the power cables, particularly the ones going to the starter. With the car having sat out so long, I'm betting these are going to need to be replaced, if you don't want to be faced with a self-starting car. Or at least don't leave it in gear when you part it, lol.

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