[chudson]

Looking for a set of front springs for standard strut. Want 1" drop and low (app 200 lbs) spring rate.



Thanx

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[flash]

h&r used to make them



i think there is a set of hypercoils out there that do that

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[RS Barn]

Those Springs usually lower car 1 1/2 " which can't be duplicated in rear without re-indexing torsion bars.

IMHO bad idea

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[flash]

that's the problem i had with the porsche motorsport tech art eibach springs i had



the H&R springs were 1", though a couple of them did settle to a little below that. i don't know about the hypercoils, though they said 1" the last time i saw them



here is a set of weltmeisters, though they don't spec a rate:

http://www.paragon-p...-spring-set.htm



last time i checked, you can get any spring you want wound for about $250 a pair, but you have to give them the specs. it's not hard to figure out though, and i've done that with a few cars and been very happy.



hmmm...........that gives me an idea. give me a couple of days to work this out.

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[jaap]

I just bought and installed a new set of clubsport springs. These have the same rate as the standard spring but lower the car about 2-2,5 cm while giving similar ride quality as the standard springs. I could match the ride height for the rear by adjusting the excentrics.



Jaap

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[Qfrank]

My car has Hypercoils from previous owner, sourced from Paragon, they rate them at 200lbs. I am pretty sure they dropped more than an inch, I will measure height for you tomorrow for comparison.

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[DaveN]

"Hmmmm that gives me an idea"

I smell a product that I would buy. A set of springs around 200 lbs that lower the car just enough to be replicated by the rear concentric adjustment. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

that's what's missing out there. ironically, this is the first thing that put me on the path to modifications. my car came to me with porsche motorsport eibach/tech art progressive springs. they were extremely cool, and uber rare, but unfortunately lowered the front end of the car more than the eccentrics could compensate for, sending me down the slippery slope of rear coilover conversions.



had i to do it over again, and there were a set of springs that would have lowered the car to the same level as the eccentrics could, AND was the spring rate i wanted, i would have gone that route, and not ventured down the ugly path of rear suspension modification



i'm looking into it. i have better access now than i used to, so this might be do-able.

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[bombfactory]

Flash would these hypothetical-for-now springs work with my M030 struts? I think I'd be happy with a slightly higher spring rate than my current stockers. Would they be progressive?

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[flash]

i am thinking they would be progressive, and likely about 160-220. that way they would have the same ride as stock, but then firm up in the corners, and not exceed the OEM shocks.



they would fit OEM perches.



i don't know about the M030 thing. as i remember you have 944 M030 stuff in there, and not 968 M030, and there were a couple of different ones, and i can't remember which dots we saw. so, i'd really have to measure what you have to see what would fit.



you could stick an insert in a coil though, and increase your rate, assuming you have adjustment left to then lower the car back down. after measuring the springs, i'd have to do the math to see what the new rate would be.

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[bombfactory]

Yes I have 951 M030 front struts. The stock 160 lb. springs (yellow and gray paint daubs) are fairly long and the threaded spring perches are pretty much maxed out - meaning I couldn't get the car any lower (not that I need to) unless I went with shorter length springs.



Progressive from 160 (or maybe 180?) to 220 sounds good to me - I'd buy 'em.

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[flash]

the grey on those is probably white, and then would have been 1 white and 1 yellow or 2 white and 1 yellow. same rate either way, progressive, with a final rate of about 160.

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[flash]

ok - got it!



i can do the springs. here is what i am thinking.



160-225 progressive. that will give the stock ride cruising around, but firm up in the corners, without being too stiff for the rear torsion bars.



.75" lowering (that's what you get with the rear eccentrics, so it would be even all around) coincidentally, this is ROW M030/club sport ride height



direct swap. no modifications required. no additional parts required.



$240 a pair



i need 25 guys to line up though before i can go forward, and it will take 6-8 weeks to get them done.

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[chudson]

Pete / Flash - thanx



I dropped the ride on the rear of the silver car as far as it would go and adjusted the front c/overs to suit. Car has a slight rake sitting empty which is leveled with my body weight and I did all set up / aligning with 1/2 tank and my son in the seat - he and I very close in weight. I really don't want to do the c/o conversion on the red car as the wife has mostly laid claim to it, but I do like the slightly lower look. I was assuming there were some 1" drop springs with somewhat soft rates. Perhaps not.



Correct Pete - I don't want a 1 1/2 drop and don't want to index bars. Thanx again.

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[bombfactory]

Flash - I'm in if they will work with M030 struts.



I'm pretty sure my current springs are the same ID as my previous (non-M030) ones, but I'll measure them both to make sure.

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[flash]

cliff - 1" will put you low in the front by 1/4" - if you want it level, you want 3/4" shorter, not 1" - that's exactly what the M030 setup is, and why

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[chudson]

Yeah Flash - I posted 1" but in retrospect really meant almost an inch. I got all the 3/4 out of the rear on the silver car (and possibly even more - I think it was a little high even by US standards). I like the stance it has now. I'll have to look for those ROW height specs and compare to silver. Red car is US height and compared to silver it just looks wrong. Basically I was hoping someone had some used lowering springs that would provide a little drop for a hundred of so. With wife driving it doesn't have to have the suspension upgrades the other car has.

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[RS Barn]

I'm not a believer in Spring rates "Flash" is in love with. BTW he has totally different Shock/Spring package on his car.

So what I'm saying is there are very different ideas on what is best on 968 and there isn't one person who should dictate what you should use/buy

Pete

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[chudson]

Pete - I fully understand. I don't discount information offered up by people with a lot of experience or R&D time, but there isn't one fix that works for everyone.



I've been a NASCAR fan for years. A crew chief gets a car set up perfect and the driver is running away with the race. It starts raining and the race is stopped. The very next day the race resumes and the same car with its setup untouched becomes junk just because conditions changed.



Or a team has 2 cars / 2 drivers. One likes the car loose; the other likes it tight and they both run near identical lap times.



Plenty of people have 400+ springs up front and claim to love then. Flash thinks that is way over the top. He may be right and the high spring rate car might be junk in the hands of someone else but the guy who has them loves them. If he's happy I'm happy.



I just picked up another car and am doing the "Cliff" thing to it. Few of you reading this will understand - 968gene certainly does. I just wanted to drop it in the front to match what I will adjust it to in the rear and it's not 030. Simple as that - was hoping to find some used springs.



I certainly didn't expect all this discussion over my hunt for some springs, but I do enjoy and appreciate all the different opinions and it does create more thought process. If there's one thing 40 years in the automotive industry has taught me it's that no one person knows it all.



In my younger days I thought I did.



Whoops!

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[flash]

it's not a matter of being a believer or not. it's really more in what you want from the car.



yes, i have a different setup now. i've gone through a few. i've tried stiffer springs on both koni yellows and koni hydraulics. i have the stiffer springs in boxes in a cabinet now. yes, the car cornered better, but handled worse. there is a big difference between handling and cornering, and i choose handling over cornering on a street car.



the 968 behaves a certain way with the setup it has stock



yes, it can handle better, and easily corner better, depending on what you do, but it also comes at a compromise of the things that make the 968 what it is. how much of a compromise is up to the individual and their decision as to how far to go.



pete's focus is race cars. that's fine. i don't happen to think that the 968 makes a great race car. pete disagrees. that's fine. he's not alone in that. it's not like anybody is forcing me to have to drag this beast around the track either. i realize that people race pretty much anything. heck, they have pickup truck classes. that's just fine too.



my focus is maintaining the character and behavior that makes the 968 "the predictable porsche", and retaining the feel of the car that brought us all to it in the first place. that's why i recommend the things i do, and develop the things i do. while i certainly haven't ridden in or driven every different setup, i've driven and ridden in some cars pete has set up, as well as some others that have been similarly set up, or used the more common items, and while i am sure they do better on the track than more comfortable street setups, i have found them all to be harsh and unpleasant, compared to the feel of OEM. the owners don't all agree either. it really does vary.



again though, this is highly subjective. maybe i'm just getting old. i know i used to set things up a lot stiffer. i didn't used to care if the car jumped, twitched, or danced around, or bumps were hard. all i cared about were lap times. now i care about being able to keep the wife from complaining or not joining me on the nice long weekend wine trip, while i still have fun driving the car fast.



there is no "right" or "wrong" answer. it all depends on what you want, and what you are willing to deal with.

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