[kwikt]

Exactly Flash, that's why my 911 flywheel uses the factory 6 bolt plate even with the stock flywheel(used on my Fidanza also). Funny that Porsche used this setup on their other autos but NOT their 968.

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[flash]

lol - yup - those wacky germans - i guess they figured that with 9 bolts, and a big steel flywheel, that everything was fine. but let it become aluminum.................



this really is a no brainer. it just boggles the mind sometimes.



what bothers me most is the never-ending "i've been doing this or that for years, and i've never had a problem". that is exactly why SAE, ANSI, and other organizations exist. they establish and maintain engineering regularity. without it, you get every joe-bag-o-donuts throwing something together without doing the math, and then you have problems. they may or may not show up all of the time, but they generally do show up. this is a potentially dangerous one.



again, the fix is relatively easy. i know it's a pain, and plenty of people are going to try to convince themselves they don't need to do it. but, i can pretty much guarantee that those who don't will be thinking about it the next time they are out there flying around.

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[Cloud9...68]

I have to agree. Given that the gouging appears to be a common problem with aluminum flywheels, not doing the mod to protect the aluminum from the force of the bolt heads is flirting with disaster, as there's no way the bolts can retain the proper torque with that much of the alumimum compressed under the bolt heads. And as long as you have it out and at the machine shop, you might as well at least check the tightness of the nose piece. Mine was very loose, and the shop simply inserted a pair of set screws at the intersection between the nose piece and the rest of the flywheel, and cut a groove in the nose peice for a snap ring to retain the bearing.

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[flash]

at least this one is pretty easy to correct. i've seen some stuff out there that is just plain scary. this one is not really anybody's "fault" per se, and i'm certainly not trying to point fingers or trash anybody. i think this is more a situation where something that was "ok" in one application, and was presumed to be ok in another, without anybody doing any calculations or real testing. in reality it was marginal in the former, and has problems in the latter. sometimes you don't find this stuff out until way down the road. that happens in this business.



because i'm going back to the DMF, i'm pretty sure i'm going to be selling mine, with the mods, once i get it out of there tomorrow. i've done the plate, but not the nose cone yet. i have to decide what to do about that first. i just don't want to end up spending more on the darned thing than i would get for it. but, it will be perfect, and balanced, when i sell it. i may even put a new surface plate on it. we'll see.

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[Joel968]

Running a Fidenza in the race car for quite some time, never had a problem. Heck, switchede a couple and the only one my mechanic would not install is that one that came from Flash. The time serts were so off center they would install. Wasted a few hundred $$$

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[flash]

??? you got it from me? did you buy it through somebody else?



i had and sold 2 of them. one overseas and one to somebody here in CA. both for $200. they were both in my car at one point.



the one that was in my car for a few years, and had at least 7 clutch jobs on it (trying out different disks), had only one helicoil (i didn't use timeserts) that was about .020" off, but it still bolted up every time. the other helicoils were bang on. by the way, i mentioned the "cock-eyed hole" in the ad i placed here, from which the sale originated.



the other flywheel was flawless and only had a couple of hours on it.



i never heard about any issues. why didn't you say something? do you still have it?



i'm curious though. why would you "switch a couple"? did you have a problem?



as i said, there will be a bunch of people who "never had any problems". that doesn't mean that problems won't pop up. they are real. it's not just me that has had them. perhaps they aren't as common on the 13lb unit though as they are the 18lb. i don't know yet. data is just now starting to come in. the point is not how many people can go without problems. the point is what if just one guy lost his leg? that's why SCCA requires a scatter shield. it has happened enough to warrant a rule. that's also why i don't want anything to do with making or selling flywheels. the liability is ridiculous.

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[kwikt]

Here it is!

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[flash]

yup - another one.

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[Joel968]

The flywheel was sold to commdiver in Sonoma, we were doing a deal and he purchased it at my request as part of the transaction. Your ad did say that they were out of line but I had no idea that "cock eyed hole" really meant the part was not useable. The only reason i did not contact you and ask for a refund was that I did not purchase from you directly. I was somewhat blow away that you would sell such a item on you website, even more now that you are posting a safety / fix for the Fidenza.



Not sure if I still have the flywheel but I will check the shop. The reason i said switched was we removed a Fidenza and engine to engine while we were doing work.



If you wish you can refund my $200.00, my paypal account is mjc.llc@comcast.net

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[flash]

the part was quite useable. only 1 hole was cock-eyed, and only by a small amount. the others are dead on straight. i had it in my car for years, and changed clutches on it many times. it really was not a problem. i would be taking a long look at your mechanic. it sounds like he's either incompetent for too finicky.



regardless, i will be more than happy to buy it back. let me know when you find it.



none of this detracts from the reality that there is a very real problem with these flywheels. i am betting that when i get that one back, it will also show the galling at the bolt holes, and be further evidence of the issue.

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[Joel968]

The part was never installed on my car, the mechanic, a 35 year factory trained tech and the shop owner, Bob Woodman would not install it due to liability issues. As for dead on and straight, no, not even close. As stated, was blown away that you would sell such a flawed item.



Based on your statement I will great effort to find the flywheel.

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[flash]

sorry, but i don't believe you, but whatever. i know 8 out of the 9 bolts lined up perfectly when it left here. only one was slightly off, but it still also ran in. i did it at least 7 times. that's all irrelevant though.



you should have contacted me back then. i always back up anything i sell. everybody knows that, and i find it offensive for you to suggest otherwise.



once again, you find it and i'll buy it back. i'll even set up a call tag for it. once it shows picked up, i'll paypal you the $200 no problem.



i'm also willing to bet that one has the galling too. i wasn't thinking about the problem at the time. but now, i'm pretty sure that every one of these we see removed from a car will have this problem. i'm pretty sure a number of them will have the nose cone problem. when i get this one back, i'll probably be adding it to what is likely to become a very long list.

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[Fox944]

I find it funny that anyone would complain about a defective product they purchased several months later. Why not bring up the issue once the item is received? As someone who has sold over 100 items on ebay, and purchased over 100 on ebay...every single time I received a defective product...I brought it up with the seller the minute I received the item. Likewise with items I sold, the one time the buyer was not pleased...he contacted me the day he received it. I issued a full refund plus paid for shipping both ways. I don't believe Joel Either. Especially considering the fact that every time there is a defect flash finds with any products he sells, he issues a recall before anyone even complains about the issue.

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[flash]

lol - yeah - well, some people don't like to complain. i get that. the sale was to somebody else, and then to him. perhaps he thought i would not honor the sale, though i'm not sure how anybody could think that, given as you say, the way i have handled anything else. sometimes somebody gets an ear full from somebody else, and forms an opinion based on that, rather than personal experience. i don't know.



regardless, i will buy it back as soon as he finds it. no problem. i won't let my reputation be tarnished.



i just removed the 18lb unit from my car. i will be installing the DMF tomorrow. since the bolt circle has already been done, and the plate is already made, i will then install a new friction plate on the 18lb unit, do something about the nose cone, and let it go on to somebody else, all pretty and shiny like new, and ready to work like it should. because i'm going back to the DMF, i'll also be letting go of the now discontinued and uber rare (since they haven't started selling them again just yet), S2 harmonic balancer pulley that has about 2k miles on it.

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[Langley968]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1356215894' post='136529']

regardless, i will buy it back as soon as he finds it. no problem. i won't let my reputation be tarnished.

[/quote]



An honorable statement.

I'll drink to that... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/beer.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[kwikt]

All back together and back to slooooowwwww revving. Fidanza 13lbs vs <acronym title='dual mass flywheel'>DMF</acronym> 30lbs.

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[flash]

lol - yeah - normally aspirated, that's a big jump. it's not going to be such a big jump for me, since i had 18lbs, plus the 4lbs of the S2 pulley.

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[Cloud9...68]

kwikt,



Maybe I missed it, but why did you go back to the <acronym title='dual mass flywheel'>DMF</acronym>? Just got tired of the noise?

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[kwikt]

Yes the noise was getting very annoying after a while. Along with worrying about the flywheel tech advisory. To be honest with you though, my flywheel bolts appeared to stay properly torqued when I removed them from the Fidanza. Then again .....appeared.

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[flash]

it will be interesting to see what the results will be from others. the galling you show on your flywheel shows the issue, regardless of whether or not the bolts "felt" torqued. it's not like the material was carved away, and is floating around in there. i have yet to see any "filings". it seems to be just compressed and/or deformed. that does not bode well for torque retention under heating and cooling cycles.



i can't tell for sure, but from the pic, it looks like the nose cone moved too. it looks set different left to right. is it just a shadow?



regardless, the fix is pretty easy. lol - i can't help with the rattle though.

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