[ds968]

As our son starts college in just a few days, I realized that simply thinking about spending $ 20,000 annually ( in just tuition costs, mind you..) and actually providing the credit card to pay for it, the latter has a helluva bigger impact on one's psyche [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img], not just the wallet. Lucky the university is close enough where he can commute in so he does not have to live on campus for another $1,000 each month, but still... $ 80,000 in the next four years would buy a lot of fun mods to the 968, wouldn't it ?! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

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[PorscheDude]

I skipped to whole kids thing myself, so I cannot relate.

But I feel for ya! Only a few more years than your of the hook.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yeah, life has a nasty habit of getting in the way of truly fun stuff like car mods. Hopefully the tuition is coming from a different pot...

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[flash]

funny how things are different these days - i had to get a job and work while going to college - not a dime from the parents - was the same with a lot of the people i knew

this generation of kids is so different - the sense of entitlement is frightening - i was just talking to the neighbors who got bullied into buying the kids a xbox because their friends wouldn't come over without one - my parents made me go without (neighbors kid had the atari - i had a deck of cards and a chess set)

college is supposed to be a sifting mechanism as much as a training ground - this is where we separate those who can learn a work ethic and how to get things done from those who will always work at someone else's direction - it isn't just about learning a trade, skill or whatever - that's why the basic courses are first - it is to figure out if you have the ability to task manage, a necessary skill for success

this "no child left behind" nonsense has been the worst thing that could ever have happened - not everybody needs to "succeed" - we need grunts as much as we need doctors - success should be measured by achievement, not attendance - there should not be a trophy for 6th place

i fear for the next generation

rant over

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[ds968]

yup, i agree entirely, and the obvious question would be : since you're the one controlling the money why not have it your way ? well, the answer is : just like pets own people and not the other way around, kids own you..whether you admit it or not, it is a fact so you do anything within your means to help them achieve what they think they will

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[Cloud9...68]

This is a thorny topic, and Flash makes some very good points. I guess as a practical matter, though, given the cost of college these days, there aren't many part time jobs that could even cover tuition.

In my particuar case, my parents paid for 100% of my college costs, so I feel a sense of obligation to do the same for my kids. It's also my responsibility as a parent to instill the same work ethic in my kids that my parents did in me, so I'm not too worried about the "sense of entitlement" issue. In order of priority, I would rank life's major expenses as follows:

1) Day-to-day living expenses
2) Investments in things to better oneself's standard of living, such as advanced job training or education, start-up of a new business, etc.
3) Retirement savings
4) College costs
5) Toys/hobbies like car mods [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/img]

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[flash]

1, 5, 2, 3 - 4 is non-existent

3 is last, because 2 is going to kill me long before i can think about that, and i never plan to retire more than i am now - why would i?

if the parents are going to pick up college, though with student loan programs today i don't see that as at all necessary, it should at least be like a student loan, with option of payback determined by the parent - if they kid does not end up using the education, they definitely have to pay it back - it should not be a way to keep from working for 4 years and have a big party on the parent's dime

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[flash]

meant to mention - case in point: neighbor kid went to college to become an audio engineer - years at it, thousands spent - not one job - now back at school to become a teacher - guess who is paying for it?

the fact is that unless they have a scholarship, i don't think college should be merely indulging the hobbies or dreams of the kid - some real world investigation on actual earning potential should be done - something to give an indication of what the kid can expect when they get out

another good example is all these kids that went to school to learn animation, thinking they were going to get rich - guess what? most of the guys at skywalker make about $40k-$60k - barely enough to rent a decent apartment up there

doing something you have passion for may be enough - but if you like the finer things in life, then kids should really have a grasp of what kinds of things result in what kinds of money before diving into 4 years or more of schooling that doesn't get them anywhere - we really need to spend more time in career development in high school - even at my school, before all the huge budget cuts, they barely touched on it - we were really on our own to figure it out

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[firefish]

What it all comes down to in the end is the ability of the parents to provide for their kids and the attitude of the kids towards being provided for.

I my case, having three boys between 7 years old and roughly 10 hours as of writing this, I will gladly pay all expenses for my kids education provided I can afford it without draining myself completely and, most important, provided that my kids realize and appreciate the gift I'm giving them. I will not under any circumstances spend a single cent on my boys so they can toy around in college and messing with girls and getting drunk, no sir, not even if I get a rich as Bill Gates.

One problem with youth today is that they have yet to grasp the real concept of money (they simply assume that it is their God given right have everything without having to do more than simply sit on their arse and yell out whatever they think they want as of thet split-second in time) and actually taking responsibility for oneself.

There is a lesson that I will see to that my boys don't miss - TANSTAAFL! My father tought me this as whenever I wanted something he told me to find a job (which I did, could be simply mowing lawns). In the end he probably supported me finacially if it was something expensive but I never got anything for free simply by pointing my finger at it. This is probably one of the most important gifts he ever gave me.

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[rhudeboye]

TANSTAAFL!

???
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=78493:date=Aug 23 2009, 10:25 AM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Aug 23 2009, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->the fact is that unless they have a scholarship, i don't think college should be merely indulging the hobbies or dreams of the kid - some real world investigation on actual earning potential should be done - something to give an indication of what the kid can expect when they get out
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- but if you like the finer things in life, then kids should really have a grasp of what kinds of things result in what kinds of money before diving into 4 years or more of schooling that doesn't get them<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

unfortunately this is not so easy to predict anymore.. in fact I'd argue it's impossible to even come up with a reasonable expectation

all the fundamentals on which you might base those expectations could completely shift in as little as the 4 years you attend college ; in the past if you went to law school, or medical school you were practically assured an excellent income.. to say the least ; now, there are countless doctors and attorneys working for wages which are equal to those kids' at skywalker ranch, and many more retiring early or changing careers because they can't afford to live under continuing cuts mandated by MCOs, far lower entry level salaries, and no available opening for positions at higher levels .

software engineers , programmers , many IT graduates in the 90s would see 25-50% salary increase offers every six months if they moved from one company to another, today they are among the largest unemployed group in Ca , and happy to take a $ 50 k / year job.. but it no longer exists..

there is absolutely no major one can choose in college which can give you the assurance or even a reasonable probability of good earning potential in any given field of work ; any sector of the economy can easily collapse in 4 years while another, perhaps in an entirely unexpected domain may grow exponentially. but no amount of research will give you a solid estimate of where that growth is going to be, when the global economy dynamics can turn everything upside down in what seems to be the blink of an eye lately.

that said, focusing on something that may enable you to succeed in your own business could be the safer choice .. maybe a trade school instead of a university and coupled with a few business courses at a community or city college may just suffice to get you on your way.. heck, my car mechanic does better than 80% of the people at our multi-billion dollar hight tech company.

not sure what the answer is, but it seems the majority of kids follow their passion, and the rest are betting on what seems like a good career right now, thinking the future will not change much.. both carry the same risk, IMO.

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[flash]

certainly things are weird right now - no question - as you say, even the traditionally stable things are having a hard time

one thing that people are going to have to get used to is the idea that salaries without ceilings are a thing of the past - we will see more and more control being placed on that as companies seek to control their futures

that being said, the things we need are the things we need - there will always be employment in those areas, but there may not be the money there used to be

a good solid education in a broad area will be the key to being able to adjust to a changing world - the skills of task management and research learned in the first 2 years of remedial undergrad work are what set you up for dealing with life - they teach you how to get things done, find things out, and manage your time - that is what any employer in any field looks for

being specialized will always make things difficult - working in a discretionary spending field will always be filled with ups and downs as the economy shifts back and forth

no easy answers for sure, but just like buying a good grey suit, a solid education will always allow you to "dress it up or down" as the needs dictate

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[firefish]

TANSTAAFL = there aint no such thing as a free lunch

it's one of those togehter with YCDBSOYA [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

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[Lord_Galva]

I have to agree with everyone here espically Flash on this one.
I have seen soo many young people, whom which I belong, expect their parents to pay for everything.
My father being wise never bought me my first car or nearly any other "waste of money object." I thought he was just being cheap or mean, I really had to grow up to understand.
What he ended up doing was forcing me to manage my money, early on, that I earned off summer jobs.
There was no "free lunch" or "free ticket to college" if I wanted to go I needed a job. So I got one.
Gotta love the Jewish education system. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
After the accident my dad wanted to pay for everything. I was very reluctant to let him do this and I still am today.
I am currently looking for more and more odd jobs to become self-sufficant again and currently need no more parent assistance again.

Thank You dad!

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