[nhlrush]

Hi all,



Hoping someone out there might know where I stand legally with the following scenario.....



I drove five and a half hours to look at a 944 cabriolet....had 29,000 original miles, car was not mint but very very nice.....I got there, met the owner, drove it, it was great....While spending time with the owner, he told me he had gotten a call from another party from st. louis who was very interested and ready to buy the car without looking at it.....



But since I had contacted him first and made the long drive, he was going to give me first right of refusal...



I understood the situation, either give a deposit and agree to buy or take the risk the other party buys it immediately and potentially lose a 29,000 mile really nice car.....



I agreed to buy the car for his asking price, which admittedly was about 2-3,000 lower than he could of got...I really wanted to do a pre purchase inspection but i knew it was a solid car and I was getting a great price...



I gave him a $500 deposit and agreed to return in 2 weeks to pick up the car and give him the balance.....



On my drive home that day, he calls me and says the other party is willing to give me $500 to walk away from the car, I declined. Another call, the offer is up to $800 to walk away from the purchase...



I declined and said I want the car. I went to my credit union and a check cut in his name for the balance of the car...I told him I would be arriving by train and driving the car home.....



A few days before I was scheduled to pick up the car, he calls me, says he and his wife have discussed the car again and they want to keep it.....He sends me back my $500 deposit....and that's that....



Come to find out, thanks to carfax, that the car was sold the following week and registered and titled in st. louis....he basically backed out on me and sold it to the other people, probably for at least 2-4,000 more...



Having thought about it, I think I am entitled to the $800 offered to me, paid to me by the owner of the car who backed out on our deal.....Do I have any legal rights or can someone back out of anything, anytime for any reason......



Any thoughts out there????

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[spectre996]

Sorry to here about your situation. You should at least be happy that if nothing else, you broke even (mine your time and travel expenses.) Unless you had some sort of contract in writing to proof your scenario you will have a hard time reclaiming anything from the owner. In some states verbal contracts are legally binding but you don't mention where you are from. Additionally, it would still come down to your word against his. All in all, it sounds like it was a pretty shady seller to begin with.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[sasilverbullet]

You don't say what state your in, that makes a dif.



If you want to make a big deal of it in *some* states you can, others, walk away and find another fish.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[nhlrush]

i am in nj, the car was in virginia

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[RPM]

The issue would seem to come down to two questions:



1. Did you have a valid and legal contract? (not necessarily in writing, but you would need a strong witness if not, and as SilverBullet pointed out this is also a state by state issue)



2. Will the time, cost, and trouble of trying to adjudicate this be worth the potential $300 difference you seek?



I think you chalk this one up to lesson learned.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[968gene]

When I was looking for my car, I had a verbal agreement over the phone, had taken a vacation day, had emailed a copy of the FedEx'd cashier's check down payment, had plane tickets from LA to Phoenix in hand, and a rental car reservation from Phoenix to Prescott. I called the PCA member the day before to confirm and he told me that the car had sold. Lesson learned. The next car I found was nicer. Good Luck in finding your 968.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[nhlrush]

I actually have a bill of sale signed by both us, stating the VIN, price of the car, date, and the $500 deposit I gave him.....



Also to clarify, when I was driving home he called me and said the other party was willing to give me $800 to walk away from the car, not including my $500 deposit I would get back from the owner.....



Bottom line, when I gave the guy the $500 deposit and we made out the bill of sale, he could have backed out at that time, before we did this and said, "sorry, i am going with the other offer, sorry you came down here."



Had he said that before we made the deal, that was his right, but he called me a few days before I was going back to pick up the car and said he was going to keep it instead......somewhere in all this i think he should pay for breaking my contract and causing me to waste a lot of time running around.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[RPM]

A signed bill of sale might just change the deal, depending on how it is worded and what state you are in. I might consult with a VA attorney. The jerk may just owe you a 968.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[gryphon]

I think that the Bill of Sale represents a written contract and you have a breach of contract lawsuit. If the car was truly undervalued you may have damages larger than $800, namely the difference between the purchase price and market value. I'd run it by an attorney if it were me.



Tom

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Darryl]

A document signed by both parties should hold up, but I'm not an attorney, in fact I've never even played one on TV. Seriously though, if you know an attorney who can do you a favor and make a call or write a letter, that may be enough. Private party car deals are always subject.



The question I'd have in my mind at this point is what if the car gets damaged, sabotaged, etc. since it's now in St Louis under posession of a third party who technically owns the car at this point. Also, unless you can prove you should be the owner, you'll have to get the St Louis party involved in order to physically get the car anyways. May end up being way more trouble than it's worth. As RPM said, may just want to chalk this up to lesson learned since you're not out any cash.



Just my thoughts...sorry to hear about your troubles. I did something similar with a cargo van one time and the guy disappeared with my 500.00 deposit. Lesson learned...



- Darryl

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Scott Collins]

nhlrush,



Sorry about your situation. I have been fortunate in that both Porsches I have bought were

owned by classy people. The PO of my current 968 had all sorts of new stuff waiting for me

when I picked it up because he "wasn't comfortable" letting me drive away with anything not

working perfectly. He replaced a wheel bearing, bought a new underbelly tray, new visors

and clips and a few other things. Clearly, this is not the kind of person you ran into, someone with a

moral compass and sense of fairness. Sounds to me like you would have been in for a

roller coaster ride has anything gone south after the purchase. Not the kind of person who

would step up and do the right thing...



One letter from your attorney might free up the $800, or at least make the guy think

twice about playing fast and loose about agreements. I personally would do this for sure because I

would simmer and stew unless I did something. Not advice, just what I would do.



Either way you go, it's going to be frustrating. If you can justify the time and legal fees,

take him to court and make the guy talk to Doug Llewellyn. (the guy the losers have to

talk to on "Peoples Court". And he also has to listen to that theme song playing as he

explains why he lost....)



Good luck with this. Pls let us know if you get anywhere.



Cheers!



-Scott



(BTW: are you a Rush fan? Love that band.)

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[gryphon]

[quote name='Darryl' post='45171' date='Jan 1 2008, 03:16 PM']A document signed by both parties should hold up, but I'm not an attorney, in fact I've never even played one on TV. Seriously though, if you know an attorney who can do you a favor and make a call or write a letter, that may be enough. Private party car deals are always subject.



The question I'd have in my mind at this point is what if the car gets damaged, sabotaged, etc. since it's now in St Louis under posession of a third party who technically owns the car at this point. Also, unless you can prove you should be the owner, you'll have to get the St Louis party involved in order to physically get the car anyways. May end up being way more trouble than it's worth. As RPM said, may just want to chalk this up to lesson learned since you're not out any cash.



Just my thoughts...sorry to hear about your troubles. I did something similar with a cargo van one time and the guy disappeared with my 500.00 deposit. Lesson learned...



- Darryl[/quote]



Darryl, I think that you are referring to a suit for specific performance, which is probably not the way to go. It would be expensive, complicated, and if there is no statutory basis for recovering your legal fees, you may come out poorer for the experience. Breach of contract is much easier to prove and collect.



Tom

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[nhlrush]

I just spoke to my lawyer about this situation...



Basically, because I accepted my deposit back, I was therefore accepting his breach of contract...essentially, my accpeting the deposit back creates a new contract.



I needed to decline the owners attempts to return my money and try and fight him at the time....



I think I should still contact him and tell him I want a cut of his profits from selling the car from out from under me.....

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[rustech]

...But do it through an attorney so he takes you serious.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.