[Evan70]

Given that I'd be using the 968 that I'm looking at mainly as a daily driver, with maybe 2-3 track events each year. I'm sure I'd add it later, but would I be ok without it for 6-12 months and 1 or 2 DE track events. Also, how hard is it to add an LSD to these cars, I know the aftermarket units go for around $1100, is there anything else that's needed other than the LSD itself. How hard is it to install, and how much would it cost to have a typical shop install it?

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[Lemming]

I don't have LSD on my DD and don't really miss it, that's mainly because I don't push my car on the street whatsoever.



My trackcar does have LSD and for track use it is essential. Can you get away without LSD at the track, of course you can. Is it as fun, no. Prior to the engine and tranny swap in my track car I did not have LSD and managed to spin the back wheel constantly coming out of turns (and that was with the 924S engine).

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[flash]

i think i would spend more money on more track time first, and see if it's for you - you may find that you don't like it, and then running without lsd is not nearly as big of a deal



but, i agree, if you plan to be out there regularly, it's really a "must do" - not too bad to install - about a grand labor, for most shops, and this gives you a chance to poke around inside the box and address any other issues there, which, if you planned to track the car, would show up quickly

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[Evan70]

[quote name='flash' date='Apr 27 2006, 11:47 AM']i think i would spend more money on more track time first, and see if it's for you - you may find that you don't like it, and then running without lsd is not nearly as big of a deal[/quote]

Guess I should have posted more info, yes I do a lot of track events, although they wouldn't nescessarily be with the 968. My Firehawk is actually faster and setup more for track use, so it's really the primary track car. It would be nice though to take the 968 out to the track when we have Porsche only events (once a year) and maybe 1-2 more times a year depending on how much fun the 968 is at the track.

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[flash]

ah - got it - then yes, i think you would be less than pleased without LSD - you would likely be frustrated - the car is underpowered for its weight, and without at least the ability to get what power there is to the ground, you'd probably be going through a series of 4 letter explitives

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[Evan70]

That's what I was afraid of, the only other car I've tracked without a LSD was an 86 944 Turbo and it was very underwhelming in the handling department. Of course, I was never sure whether that was the factory shocks or the lack of the LSD. The Firehawk is a heavier car (3500lbs), with worse weight distribution (55/45), but it has massive rubber (275front/315rear for track use) and tons of power (~320rwhp) and even more torque with of course a Torsen diff.



The 944 Turbo S I got rid of back in January of course had the LSD, and was a fun track car, but that particular car had a lot of issues and turned into a money pit ($10K in a year, with lots more still to go). I guess the real questions are:

Do I get the 968 w/out LSD and street drive it until I can put an LSD in it?

Or, do I pass on it and keep looking for one with an LSD?

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[flash]

since it's an easy addition, you could go either way - it really comes down to whether or not you like everything else about the car - i've always felt that it's better to wait for the one you want, but that doesn't mean you need to wait for one that has every last option or mod - i waited 4 months to find the one i wanted, so i could then tear it apart



budget can play in here too for sure



josephsc just came across an LSD box for sale

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[TheMirror]

3500lbs, 55/45, 275/315, and 320hp to the wheels.



The car that jumps to mind is an LS1 powered Camaro or Trans Am.



What is the Firehawk? Curious.



[quote name='Evan70' date='Apr 27 2006, 11:55 AM']That's what I was afraid of, the only other car I've tracked without a LSD was an 86 944 Turbo and it was very underwhelming in the handling department.  Of course, I was never sure whether that was the factory shocks or the lack of the LSD.  The Firehawk is a heavier car (3500lbs), with worse weight distribution (55/45), but it has massive rubber (275front/315rear for track use) and tons of power (~320rwhp) and even more torque with of course a Torsen diff.



The 944 Turbo S I got rid of back in January of course had the LSD, and was a fun track car, but that particular car had a lot of issues and turned into a money pit ($10K in a year, with lots more still to go).  I guess the real questions are:

Do I get the 968 w/out LSD and street drive it until I can put an LSD in it?

Or, do I pass on it and keep looking for one with an LSD?

[right][post="19929"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

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[Evan70]

The Firehawks were Firebirds converted by SLP (Street Legal Performance) in conjunction with Pontiac as a limited/performance edition. The base Firehawks got a functional ram air intake, exhaust and larger wheels/tires, with options for lots of other upgrades. Mine is actually an LT4 Firehawk, of which there were only 29 ever made. They took some left over 96 LT4 Corvette engines from GM, balanced and blueprinted them, and added everything else in the SLP performance catalog (extrude honed manifolds, Torsen diff, upgraded springs, shocks swaybars, etc). Whereas most Firehawks were anywhere from a $4K-$8K upgrade, the LT4s were almost a $20K upgrade. On top of that, I've added a few more upgrades (stiffer springs/shocks, even bigger swaybars, other suspension components) that have made it handle even better. At this point it's only maybe 2 seconds a lap slower than the 01 Corvette Z06 I had around the same track, and several seconds a lap faster than the 944 Turbo S I had that was putting out close to 280rwhp. The only real problems with the Firehawk are that it's heavy, big, and it's very prone to power oversteer. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[whakiewes]

I am a general fan of the LSD. I enjoy toying around in the rain, and occasionally when permitted doing a little ass-out driving. Try that in an open-diff, let alone a Porsche open diff. It appears to me its about a $2500 addition to the car after looking around at previous 968's. I held out and purchased an LSD car, as the hassle to install it wasn't worth just waiting to find a factory car. Its comming into summer, prices are going to hike, and you will see cars go for sale left and right. My vote would be to hold out, but its all opinion.



Firehawk - Pontiacs endevour prior to the WS6 package. It was with the cars with the point nose vs. the more round of the WS6. Quick cars, very decieving as they appear to be regular Firebirds.

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[tsj9197]

on the DIY forum there is a write up of the procedure i wrote to install a LSD into my 968 without removing the tranny.



http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=515



feel free to ask questions.

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[Renalicious]

How does an LSD affect daily driving anyways? How do you know if you have one or not?



-ren

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[flash]

lol - that really depends on how you drive your car daily - i drive it like a nut, so for me, it helps every day - plus, i'm in a cab, which is already tail light compared to a hardtop, and i've yanked 100 lbs out of the back end on top of that - i used to spin a wheel every time i got on it - now, no more

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[S_Cal968]

A LSD works by how much torque is applied, [more torque more engagement]. If you drive conservatively it's similar to an open diff. I notice mine especially on rainy days or if I'm powering through a turn.



re: Firehawk; sweet car, I almost bought one before the 968 - then I considered the cost of gas for a daily driver.... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[whakiewes]

Did you buy the diff used or from Porsche? Just curious what the cost is? What about the motorsport clutch packs for the ZF diff? Anyone with experience installing/using the Guard LSD?

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[flash]

mine is the guard torsen type lsd

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[Evan70]

[quote name='S_Cal968' date='May 4 2006, 03:36 PM']re: Firehawk; sweet car, I almost bought one before the 968 - then I considered the cost of gas for a daily driver.... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

[right][post="20442"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Funny you should say that, the Firehawk gets as good/better MPG than my 951S did. If I drive normally, it returns 18MPG (same as the 951 on the same driving loop) of about 50/50 hwy/cty. If I drive it conservatively, it returns 21-22MPG on the same loop. On the hwy, it gets 27-30MPG even cruising at 80-90MPH.



I've ended up postponing another Porsche purchase at this time, the car I was looking at in Atlanta just wasn't worth the money the owner wanted. In the interim, my wife found an 01 Volvo V70 T5 (turbo sport wagon) that she really liked, and was local. Since I got to pick the last car, she had final say this time and went for it. That'll give me another year or two before I'm ready to find another Porsche, so I'll have time to evaluate whether I really want a 968, or maybe a 911 of some type.

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[S_Cal968]

On the hwy, it gets 27-30MPG even cruising at 80-90MPH.

That's amazing for a V8 even with an overdrive. Sure you weren't driving downhill with a tail wind..[?]. I used to have a 83 T/A with a 4-spd auto and never got into the 20's with my mpg...

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[ether_joe]

[quote name='Renalicious' date='May 4 2006, 12:43 PM']How does an LSD affect daily driving anyways? How do you know if you have one or not?



-ren[/quote]



doesn't really affect daily driving for me except when i'm really on it, back roads, quiet intersection, etc.



coming hot out of a turn, car leaning hard on the outside wheels, give it a lot of stick, and if the inside rear wheel starts to spin you have an open non-limited slip differential. Obviously make sure you have lots of room and no traffic.



I was with a buddy at Sears Point last weekend, and his car doesn't have LSD. He couldn't put down much throttle coming out of turns, when he did it sounded like the clutch was slipping!



Renalicious I love your name BTW. I think with a name like that you sort of HAVE to get an LSD at some point!

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[Evan70]

[quote name='S_Cal968' date='May 5 2006, 03:25 PM']That's amazing for a V8 even with an overdrive.  Sure you weren't driving downhill with a tail wind..[?]. I used to have a 83 T/A with a 4-spd auto and never got into the 20's with my mpg...

[right][post="20511"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Yes, but your 83 didn't have a six speed with .5 sixth gear, or very good computer tuning and monitoring. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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