[rhudeboye]

There are certain roads that seem to be made for our cars. Typically your seldom traveled windy back roads surrounded by nature and an occasional barn. The type of roads that you go out of your way to drive. The type of roads that you find an excuse to ride on even when it’s in the opposite direction of where you need to be. I’m fortunate enough to live near 2 such roads. And since buying my Porsche I have studied every corner and on every drive I push the entering speed a little harder, I brake a little bit later and I exit a little quicker. For that 2 minutes its “my road” and by the time I reach the traffic light at the end of the stretch I exhale, grin and my therapy is complete.



So the other day was Porsche weather. The temperature was cool, the roads were dry and my car was in top condition. I decided to go out for lunch and “my road” was calling me.

I hop in the 68, and head up to my road. As I cross the light leading me into the back streets I actually feel my pulse starting to race, there’s that tingle in my fingers and I go barreling into the first sweeping right that leads me off into the wooded road. Then by turn 3 I see this. note the tags..





























Needless to say, grandma doesn't view this beautiful stretch of road as I do. It was a 35mph ride for over half of the trip until I had a safe passing zone (remember this road is full of curves). I snapped the pic with my treo before blowing pass the Seniors on the inside.

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[SILVY968]

We have the same problem here in Seattle except the slow drivers are on bikes.



Brian

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='SILVY968' post='41594' date='Sep 23 2007, 12:24 PM']We have the same problem here in Seattle except the slow drivers are on bikes.



Brian[/quote]

Just reach out the window and push'em

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[1GR8_968]

She was out for a sunday drive in her Hondarati. Many Hondaratis' out on Sundays. Nonetheless a definite buzz kill.

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[gmccraley@wsgr.com]

[I'm deleting this post... sorry to have caused any trouble....]

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='S4lawyer' post='41601' date='Sep 23 2007, 03:02 PM']Sorry guys, but this is not very funny.... and when I see a string that is this patently offensive, I gotta speak up. To be honest, this string is offensive on so many different levels, I don't even know where to begin:



1. Complaining about people driving the speed limit and within their ability to comfortably drive their vehicle? I know its a bummer when someone is on "your" road (which itself indicates an absurdly high sense of entitlement to a public roadway) when you want to have a little harmless fun exceeding the speed limit. However, if there is someone else on the road (car/bike/pedestrian/kids playing nearby) you've gotta just chill. Those are the dice for that day.

2. Grandma and bikes have a legal right to use the road, and since it is incumbent on all of us in a society to politely and gracefully SHARE common resources, it strikes me as being extremely rude and self-centered to complain about others reasonable use of the roadway getting in "your" way. You (like me) may have a nice, fun and fast car and be reasonably young (like me) with good reflexes, but what does that really entitle you to? That's right.... nothing, except a higher responsibility to try to be aware of those around you and be accomodative when they may not be able. I mean, it's not like your car came with a different set of laws applying to you, did it?



3. If there is a mix up between a bike and a car, the car owner just needs to get a little fenderwork done and maybe a new paint job, but the cyclist pays with their life or becomes permanently disabled. This is no joke. I ride a fair amount in silicon valley (which is, from my experience, actually one of the more courteous places to ride a bike), and I have been sideswiped, threatened by cars (i.e. swerving at me), honked at, passed in a no-pass zone... and those were in the places where I was riding FASTER than the speed limit (and within my rights, while trying to stay out of others way). There are about 5-6 car/bike accident fatalities a year in Silicon Valley that I read about in the paper, and those are just the ones that I read about. About a year ago an up-and coming computer hardware engineer was killed by someone doing 65 in a 25 (on a back-road). Maybe that cyclist was using the "car driver's" road, eh? A little before that, a young high school teacher was killed. Probably some lame woman "getting in my way" or "slowing me down" when the driver is trying to save, maybe, 2-3 minutes, huh? Talk about a skewed sense of priority! Willing to put another's life at risk for such small gain? Two people in the past 6-8 months were killed on Skyline Boulevard, frequently cited as "the road" for many people to drive fast (motorcycles, cars, trucks, etc.). Sometimes, these are the result of the person on the bike doing something stupid (some (idiotic) bike riders break the law too), but in case, after case, after case, its the person in the car that is found at fault (as in each of the 5-6 I read about this year alone).



Not to say that I don't like to go faster than some (sometimes much faster) in my Audi S4 or my 968, but not when there is even a remote chance of endangering other people utilizing the same resource I do (other cars, bikes and pedestrians). In fact, knowing what its like be so vulnerable, I try to go out of my way to be mindful of their space and help them to be safe. Seems like the right thing to do, given the stakes for them if they get into an accident.



The bottom line for me: Other's safe and lawful use of the road and areas near it trump my desire to engage in extra-legal uses, period. If there is someone "slow" or on a bike or whatever, then that's just the luck of the draw, and I'm going to remain calm and try to be respectful of them. I'll have a chance at a clear road next time around.... any other attitude is just irresponsible and immature.



Now I don't know if its not politically correct to post a response like this on a performance car forum, and I'm sure that I'm going to get some flames. So be it. I mean no disrespect, but simply wish to add my part to this discussion as a member of the community and one that was taken aback by the nature of these posts.[/quote]



U are one tightly wound individual. Ok, maybe I shouldn't of said that. Just my initial thought after reading your post.



1. Just push'em was (I thought) an obvious joke. From what I gather, as a daily reader on this forum, no one here would actually push over a biker, well maybe Dan would. For the most part this is a peaceful happy bunch



2. I dont expect seniors to speed and when they do I really dont know how to take it, makes me a bit nervous I guess. But to each his own



As for who I am. Read through some of my other posts, I joke/ I kid. The story was meant to put a smile on your face as something I assume a few of us could possibly relate to. Just like you, my attitude is suck it up till the next day. Or, if im not in a hurry, to just pull over for a few minutes while they go ahead then let'er rip.



PS It is however "My Road" and you my friend are no longer welcome there <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[gmccraley@wsgr.com]

Sorry man... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> I think that the bike thing hit a nerve, and there are a LOT of drivers out there that would just as soon put a cyclist under their wheel as say hello (and it sucks to see/hear about people you know getting killed by aggressive drivers.... one, in fact, was in my spin class.... great lady and mother of, I think, three kids... just awful to hear... and there is a lot of careless talk about cyclists "taking up the road"... one Dj on the east coast actually told listeners to hit them with their cars so that they wouldn't slow up traffic... really dumb stuff..... and if you are a cyclist you hear about and personally experience aggressive drivers almost constantly...).



perhaps I also felt insecure since I too own an Odyssey.... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Although I gotta say that as a frequent sports car/sedan owner, the Hondarati is the coolest thing going. Handles like a champ and hauls a**. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[sbdrivingdotcom]

This is clearly a post meant to make light of the same feeling we all get when we take time out for a short drive in the cars we all love. I've only spent a couple years on this forum but have gone on a few runs with some of the guys and know that we all take safety very seriously. Nothing in Rhudeboy's post was remotely serious or disturbing. It's perfectly obvious that this entire post was to make light of a situation that is humorous. We've all been through it and most of us know the dangers of driving near pedestrians and bicyclists. I like to drive quickly through the curves too but as an owner of a driving school and the son of a mother who died in an automobile accident, I take driving seriously and consider safety paramount. I am not however, ultra-sensitive to another's harmless joke about a humorous situation that occurred. Thanks for the story and pic Rhudeboy!

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[flash]

hey - can you resize that pic down so that the screen doesn't get so danged huge?



i agree that this was likely intended as humerous



as a former bicycle racer, i certainly understand the issues at hand - i was often a near miss - in fact, that career was ended by a little old lady who turned left against a light - i got creamed badly, bike destroyed, lost job as a result



such is life - no complaints - no big law suit



life is dangerous - riding a bicycle, driving a car, or riding a motorcycle on winding canyon roads is inherantly dangerous - you take your life into your own hands - if you don't want to get hurt, don't put yourself into a situation that can cause problems - if you do, don't complain about it later



as said above - those are the dice - i'm not suggesting that anybody go out and start bashing bicyclists, but they have to be prepared for the dangers and accept responsibility for entering into them



by the way, we do have a "driving too slowly" law here in ca - if you are impeding traffic, you are legally required to pull over and let them pass, regardless of whether or not you are doing the speed limit - this also applies to bicycles, as they are regarded as vehicles here, and subject to the same laws - they have no business being on canyon roads if there is no bicycle lane, unless they can travel at the speed of traffic, or are prepared to get the heck out of the way - i used to ride on them all the time, but i also got out of the way for traffic



something that seems to be forgotten or confused is that driving is a privilege not a right - with that privilege comes responsibility, like obeying the law, using common sense, and letting the other guy go past you if you are holding them up



lol - but sometimes i miss my 66 dodge van with the big 2x4 steel beam on the front though, like when i get stuck behind a slow poke driver

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[gryphon]

Post deleted.



Peace,



Tom

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[gmccraley@wsgr.com]

Flash: Totally agree that if one understands the risk and does the activity anyway, well, such is life and sh** happens.



As a last thought, though, I would like to comment on just one last thing (very, very sorry if it seems anal)..... The minimum speed law does not apply to bicycles in CA (or in many, if not most, other states). There is only a requirement that if they are not not keeping up with the resonable speed of traffic, they stay as far to the right of the road as is practicable (and there are many exceptions to that rule as well). So if there is no bike lane, and they are going slower than traffic, they need to stay to the right, but do not need to stop to let cars go by. Just food for thought...



In any event, I'm sorry to have caused a ruckus, and I'm getting off my soap-box. I truly apologize if my hypersensivity ruffled any feathers (and this topic is just about the only one that can get me going....).



Also, I'm deleting my earlier post... once again, just trying to make amends.

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='sbdrivingdotcom' post='41627' date='Sep 23 2007, 09:51 PM']this entire post was to make light of a situation that is humorous.[/quote]



True, however the icing on the cake was the license plate. Priceless! Had to take a pic and share.



[quote name='flash' post='41628' date='Sep 23 2007, 09:54 PM']hey - can you resize that pic down so that the screen doesn't get so danged huge?[/quote]



Too much work Flash, but next time I'll choose a smaller setting.



[quote name='gryphon' post='41629' date='Sep 23 2007, 10:37 PM']God almighty, S4, it was simply HUMOR. No one is contemplating harming old people or bicycists.



If it doesn't amuse you, don't laugh and move on.



Or, I suppose, you can always sue me for thinking you're a ass.



Tom[/quote]



Now that was a Bit harsh <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

no worries guys - this is a touchy one, but it can be fun nonetheless



S4 - i don't read it like that - nowhere do i see that 22400 makes exemption or exception for bicycles, so it is arguable that it is applicable



however, nice use of the language actually used in the CVC in the bicycle section - in reading 21202, which actually provides for the lane control of bicycles, i see that it clearly intends for the bicycle to stay out of the lane, and in the shoulder nearest the right edge wherever possible - the problem is that these groups cluster and take up the entire lane - there is NO legal provision for this - they are to fit within the confines of the shoulder unless passing, or there is no shoulder - i understand that the shoulder is a lousy place to ride a $4000 bike, and a great place to bash a rim or blow a tire on a rock - i was very guilty of exactly that about which i am now complaining - i didn't want to bend a rim, or blow a sewup any more than anybody else - however, i also no longer ride on these kinds of roads for that very reason - i got hit largely because i did not pay close enough attention to newton's first law



bicycles should not be on these kinds of roads any more than an 85 year old woman with coke bottle glasses and relflexes you can time with a sundial should be on a race track - you take your life and those of others into your hands when doing so - i'm not saying that those canyons should be vacant of all cars other than mine (though i wouldn't object to that) - i am saying that the "85th percentile" method should be kept in mind when travelling them, and the assumption of risk needs to be kept forefront - one of the things that makes these roads fun for sports cars (at least for me) is the danger of driving them - that's what actually drew me to cycling - i was a downhill nut - dropping of a mountain at 50mph, knowing that at any second i could be hamburger, was intoxicating - but i also knew that if i got hit by a car (and it happened more than once), it was my fault, because i was there in the first place, and i knew it was inherantly dangerous - when i slammed a guardrail at nearly 60 (just 3 weeks before the little old lady) i knew it was my fault for being there in the first place - same thing when i stuffed myself into the front seat of a camaro as he pulled out of his driveway (that happened to cross a bicycle lane) and i couldn't stop - i could go on - it's the nature of the beast



i used to love to ride, and did it at least 3-4 hours a day, every day - but, the number of wrecks, broken bones, road rashes, near death experiences, not to mention trashed bikes, just makes it no fun anymore, and not worth the risk to me - i can't keep up with the traffic, or stay out of the way, so i stay off the road - my bike hangs on the wall, tires rotting, until i find a safe place to ride



but the big question is: should i now remove the little "dead bicycle" stickers on my front wing of the denali?" (laugh now)

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='flash' post='41637' date='Sep 24 2007, 07:45 AM']bicycles should not be on these kinds of roads any more than an 85 year old woman with coke bottle glasses and relflexes you can time with a sundial should be on a race track -[/quote]



<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Hands down the quote of the day! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[gmccraley@wsgr.com]

Flash: Its an interesting point to discuss a little further. Section 22400 actually does have some language that is speficially intended to pick up things like 21202 as exceptions to the rule. The language "unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law" is there for that reason.



That is, Section 21202 makes the exception which 22400 recognizes as being "in compliance with law." A court would be pretty clear in intepreting Section 22400 in this way. It may sound like it's overtechnical, but its a standard way of drafting/reading statutes.



I think that the rest of your reading of the statute is generally accurate.



BTW, sometimes this legal nonsense can be kind of fun.... I managed to beat a ticket through a trial by declaration by arguing that 56 in a 40 zone was "reasonable and prudent" under the circumstances under the CA basic speed law (for those non-CA people, the basic speed law just says that the posted speed limit is a rebuttable presumption of what the "reasonable and prudent" speed for a road under normal circumstances would be... there are, though, a few exceptions: school zones, driving above 70, etc.). I relish the thought of the officer (who took great pleasure in harrassing me, A LOT, when he pulled me over) having to take a day out of work to prepare a response that completely missed the issue (he spent his time rebutting my arguments about the accuracy of LIDAR, his qualifications to use it, and so on). Poor guy, he actually had to write something and think for a change instead of generating constitutionally suspect revenue for the county.

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[flash]

i think the two are being misconstrued here - one is speed and one is lane



the "compliance" section is very vague, and i don't think it's application was intended to include non speed related sections or issues - for example, it wouldn't allow you to drive more slowly, just so that you could finish your phone call (new enforcement of the distraction law would apply) - it isn't intended to allow breaking of other laws, but rather to make room for anomolous situations that make it unsafe to go any faster - it has nothing to do with lane position, or impeding traffic - if you are impeding traffic, and you can get out of the way, you must do so



i've beaten quite a few tickets over the years too (i think the last count was 17 out of 23 - i had a very misspent youth) - tought traffic school for a while too, after i got a lot older



i am preparing to contest a ticket right now - on my way home from hershey, towing my trailer, a merge point entered me onto the highway from the left - i was making my way to the required right hand 2 lanes, but in bumper to bumper 5pm traffic, i was having extreme difficulty doing so, as nobody was letting me over - it had taken so long that my turn signal began ringing it's "you're ignoring me you idiot" warning - i shut it off, realizing i was not going to be able to safely make the lane change for about a half mile - of course the officer took that opportunity to nail me - had i have made the lane change, without the benefit of somebody letting me in, i would have caused an accident - the officer nearly caused 2 in trying to get to me, and then another as he tried to make me pull over into an area from which i would never have been able to merge back onto the freeway



i have to subpoena his notes and service record, and go back and video tape the area to show the traffic problem that caused this, as well as the dangerous place he wanted to stop me



this one should actually be fun

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[1GR8_968]

Has anyone seen my soapbox? Is someone using it? Wow.

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[94SilverCab]

Eric,



Could we change the name to California Driving Statutes.com??? Holy s*** did this get off topic...



Let's get back to bashing slow moving Grannies, the real point of this website... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Jay

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[flash]

roflmao - sorry guys - perhaps that was a bit focused and narcisictic - don't you have the same kinds of laws though? of course in pennsylvania you probably still let horse carts loose on the road

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[rhudeboye]

What happen to my "happy" thread?

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