[SANDOVAL]

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread....threadid=222339

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[rustech]

Perhaps I'm missing where it states, but I don't see whether this kit is for an LS-1 or the old LT-1. LT-1 would be a masacre on a 968. Handling would be non-existent.

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[Jono]

Interesting, but I tend towards originality rather than customisation. I didn't imagine there would be enough demand for Chev V8 Porsches to keep a company going for 20+ years!

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[rustech]

Different people have different priorities and I know I'm not alone on my views.

Power, handling, looks; do what ever you can to achieve the best of each without compromising the others, and nothing else matters. Functionality is key.

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[NeedPorscheSpeed]

Personally, I cringe at the thought of putting a non-Porsche engine into a Porsche. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Anchorman]

If I ever was faced with having to replace my engine, the odds are very high that I'd either sell the car or do this kind of transplant. I already have a GM third brake light, so I've already started down the slippery slope. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[RPM]

From www.thecarconnection.com



Porsche Hybrid Awaits Frankfurt Announcement



Porsche executives say that their long-rumored hybrid vehicle plans will be confirmed in mid-September at the biannual Frankfurt Auto Show. The hybrid is expected to be a version of the Cayenne SUV that's boosted Porsche's fortunes worldwide, particularly in the U.S. Though it won't show up as a concept car at the show, the hybrid will be discussed by the company's executives, who may also reveal which company's hybrid technology they will use for the vehicle. Porsche is said to be holding talks with Toyota, DaimlerChrysler and Volkswagen as it searches for a hybrid system to graft onto its new vehicle. The hybrid model is expected to bow sometime after 2008 along with the new generation of the Cayenne SUV.

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[NeedPorscheSpeed]

[quote name='Anchorman' date='May 24 2005, 06:31 AM']If I ever was faced with having to replace my engine, the odds are very high that I'd either sell the car or do this kind of transplant.[right][post="4997"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





But why? To me, if you remove the Porsche engine, the heart and soul of the car, you no longer have a true Porsche. It just wouldn't be as the factory intended...

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mellow.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[dlearl476]

[quote name='Jono' date='May 23 2005, 10:02 PM']Interesting, but I tend towards originality rather than customisation.  I didn't imagine there would be enough demand for Chev V8 Porsches to keep a company going for 20+ years!

[right][post="4992"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



In most cases, I would agree. But a 914 with a V-8 in the back would be more fun than watching a monkey with a football, if you know what I mean. And after all, they're not "real Porsches" anyway!

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/huh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Jono]

I figure that cars like this are built 'holistically', that everything is designed and engineered to work together as one and that introducing dramatic changes upsets the overall package.



I had an experience with a 66 Mustang where the PO had dropped a 302 in to replace the 6-cyl but neglected to uprate the the diff, the brakes, the drive shaft, the transmission, the suspension.....it made me realise that car manufacturers know a lot more about making cars than me <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

i'm gonna get some flack for this, but:



it may not be as the factory intended, but it would sure be as many drivers would intend



historically, porsche has continually stopped short of giving us what we want - they continually put out big heavy slow overly expensive road cars and try to call them sports cars - they frequently get creamed by the competion who hasn't lost sight of the concept that a true sports car has no frills and is purely for performance - it's gotten so bad that you can just about buy a WRX for every day of the week for the cost of one 997, and beat it with any one of them - over time the company has almost gone out of business a couple of times as a result of this thinking (here's hoping the cayman club sport brings them back around to remembering why they got popular in the first place with the 356)



the thing to remember about porsche is that they are a road car - they are no longer a true sports car - that's fine, but many of us want a sports car - that means we need to do the things that porsche refuses to do in developing the cars they are putting out to their full potential



i don't see the problem with changing out anything as long as it's clean and it works - these cars are like a canvas - they beg to be given life via the "artist's" strokes - then they beg to be driven - hard

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[Greimann]

[quote name='flash' date='May 25 2005, 09:51 PM']i'm gonna get some flack for this, but:

[right][post="5083"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Ok, here you go buddy flash



Porsche not a sports car? Is water not wet in your world? Do dogs not have 4 legs? I reject your reality and substitute my own! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Back on the original theme - I know from experience that an engine swap car, while being fun, is also a compromise in the other things that make a car fun and comfortable to drive like noise vibration and harshness (NVH). The NVH has been carefully engineered out of a fully developed platform. A very technically demanding science that only a factory engineering team can pull off. A home brew conversion is going to have some of these issues. Not to say that it won be good project, just don't expect it to be as quiet and vibration free as a factory car.

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[flash]

bear with me and i'll also get back on topic



in the last few decades, since the gas crunch of the 70's, we have let the car manufacturers get away with calling things a sports car that really aren't - this is because they stopped making them - the idea of a sports car flew inthe face of the economically minded bean counters that ran the companies - a homoginization of the sports categories happened and the blurring has not since been corrected - there are many different performance related groups, for example, sports exotic, sport touring, sports coupe, and sports car (often called roadster)



sports car, by definition is for sport - not utility or comfort - things like air conditioning, power windows, power seats, and such are not things to be found in a true sports car - a true sports car would have no frills, be pure perfomance oriented, and be very light - a true sports car is basically a race car with an interior - it should also be 2 seat, convertable, and red, but that's a whole different t-shirt



this is not what a porsche is about, at least not in the last 30 years - they have become a sport touring car - this is a good thing for most drivers - they want the creature comforts that these cars provide, and are generally willing to compromise in performance - that's great - they make a good car for exactly that market



some of us though want more - some want all out sport, and some, like me, want something in the middle - unfortunately porsche doesn't make the stuff we want - that means we have to go elsewhere and transplant or modify things to get the performance that we are looking for



ok - back on track now



having done similar things myself, i agree with dave that any such change is likely to induce exactly the kinds of things he is talking about - in designing the chassis, the manufacturer goes through extensive testing to isolate and control anomolies created by the drivetrain - dropping a different drivetrain in there changes everything - you can expect a lot of new odd things to pop up



none of this makes it wrong or bad to make any change - it's fun - it's not like it's worth anything significant - these cars are cheap - while a nicely built touring car as it stands, they are a good platform for those who want something really special



for those of us who want more, or are used to faster or lighter cars, the car is severely underpowered and way overweight - go for it - play around - enjoy it - most of all, DRIVE IT!

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[rustech]

How long have these all aluminum V8's been out? Dave, do you have experience dropping in a motor that ways the same as the motor you take out? (Wasn't that a 450# motor in a 2600lb car or something?)



Bob, the drivetrain on these cars don't need to be changed with the motor, only the bellhousing and forward.



A V8 should have less vibration than a I4 at the same weight. The only way a V8 should add vibration is as a result of the added HP and TQ. (or if you have a crazy cam that lobes at idle)



When I get to it, I'll take lots of pictures.

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[flash]

aluminum V8s have been out since at least the early 60's



actually, you will need to change quite a bit more, depending on your willingness to deal with the mismatched gearing, but that is enough to create the problems



the vibrations and such would not necessarily decrease, and in reality and our experience, increase dramatically - kinetic energy has a lot to do with it - do a quick read on different order harmonics and you'll get what we're talking about



all that being said, it would still be a fun car to drive, and the power would offset the complications in many people's opinion - some people, like ron for example (sorry ron - gotta pick on you here), would not tolerate any of that - the scuttle shake alone in our cabs is enough for him to go crazy - you can just imagine what a little vibration would do



it's all about choices

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[Greimann]

NVH is way more complicated than just the motor itsef. It is the vehicle as a whole. Body, suspension, mechanical, and interior components are all tuned to live with each other in a production car.



Exhaust system harmonics could influence a bad shake in the steering colum, that may be resolved by changing the cigarette lighter. Rediculous example, but that is the extent of a factory program.

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[Anchorman]

Does this mean that for a 968 cab conversion to a V8 to work smoothly, the car would have to have the rear "vibration damper" in place? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[perbal]

Just to drop in my two cents, there was this car in the 60's, oh yeah!, see they took a British chassis and body and dropped in a Ford V-8 (AC + Ford + AC Corbra) and went out and beat the pants off of some very expensive Italian racing cars. And they're still building them today, though I hear they're not great road cars. I think both Greimann and Flash have a point. There will always be someone trying to improve on certain models of cars. I guess that proves that while they are worth improving, they are also worth preserving. Why not drop a Porsche v-8, i.e., from a 928 or Cayenne, into a 968 if you are looking for that much power? At least it would still be all Porsche. After all, the 968 engine was derived from the 928 engine. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

yeah, i've driven a few cobras - good example - not a pleasant ride, but definitely a lot of fun



porsche V8 could work, at least the 928 motor - cost would be rather nutty though if you wanted 400hp

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[NeedPorscheSpeed]

[quote name='perbal' date='May 26 2005, 01:21 PM']At least it would still be all Porsche.  After all, the 968 engine was derived from the 928 engine. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

[right][post="5105"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



It appears that I may have found another purist around here! Hooray! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Long live retaining Porsche engines in Porsche vehicles! Even better than dropping in a 928 engine, why not turbocharge the 968 engine? I am aware of the expense and difficulties, but still, it would be all Porsche, and be inspired by the fastest and best handling Porsche from the 944/968 line: the 968 Turbo S and RS! Or course, in keeping with the Porsche tradition of maintaining balance with componentry, after turbocharging the engine, more powerful brakes (Big Reds or 996 TT brakes would qualify), a stiffer suspension (M030 at least), and fine tuning of the front and rear weight distribution would be in order. THIS modification to a 968 is not only tasteful and purely Porsche, but replicates one of the most complete Porsches ever made. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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