[Polska23]

Hello All,

I just purchased a 1994 968 sight unseen from Maryland. It will be arriving in two days and I am very excited (im in San Diego CA). It needs some work (heater core and the standard timing belt, pulleys, waterpump, and might as well do the cam chain and pads) but working on it is part of the fun. 

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[968Syncro]

Welcome, there are a few of us in San Diego area and certainly many more in all of SoCal.    Post pictures when you get it.

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[Bulti]

Welcome!

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[MCL968]

Welcome! I spend a lot of time in SD (I will be there this weekend working on a plane at Montgomery field). Drop me a PM when you have a chance and perhaps we can meet.

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[Polska23]

Thanks for the welcomes.

The shipper is delayed again, gonna have to wait another day!

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[Rap]

Welcome. Enjoy your new ride!

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[az968]

The waiting is the hardest part - Tom Petty


Welcome!

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[Polska23]

So the car finally came, and boy has it become a roller coaster. For starters, the car was unable to start to drive off the truck. It had to be rolled off and then jumped. Ok, It happens. 

So i start looking over the vehicle. The first thing I notice is checking in the paint with signs of bondo. Uh oh, the seller claimed it was not resprayed, to the best of his knowledge. I open the drivers door and notice it cannot be closed unless it is slammed hard. Further inspection shows a botched repair at the hinge, a worn hinge, 3 different types of fasteners attaching the hinges. Buying a car sight unseen is always a risk, so before I purchased it, I had a shop in Annapolis Maryland do a PPI in the car. Tifs Foreign Auto Care. All forums had great things to say about them. They did not mention any of these things. 

Fine, so I need to do more work to the car than I expected. Its not the end of the world and everything can be fixed. 

Today I went to get a smog check at Poway Smog (great place, always quick and reasonable). Car passed smog with the NOx on the limit. Was very happy about that. Later that day I went to the AAA to get the car registered. Oddly enough I have driven by many cops while driving without a license plate without issue. Made me happy it went well.

We do to check the vin number. The lady gives me a concerned face when she was writing down the VIN from the drivers door. The VIN does not match. We look at the A pillar and the frame. Those VINs match the title. After many calls to the DMV they deemed it acceptable. But now I find out that the drivers door is not from the car! I contact the seller and he claims he had no idea. That could happen. But the PPI not catching that! Come on. That's step 1!!! Cherry on top, the smog check was written under the door vin because it was scanned. So I need to re-do it (shop will do it for free because they are great) but i have a coolant leak from the heater core and the previous owner ran too light oil which concerns me. 

So the day is almost over. To make up the hours I lost I stayed late at work. I go to the car to drive home, turn the lights on and I find the gauge cluster lights do not work. Great, half blind I drive.

 

When purchasing the car I did everything by the book. Talk with the seller, pictures, PPI by the best shop in the area. And still, I get screwed! Alot of work ahead but I'm game. The beauty of a supportive wife

 

 Here we go!

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[94SilverCab]

Caveat Emptor...sounds like SOP for a sight unseen car...

 

The good news is that we will be here to help.

 

Jay

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[Ryan]

What a cluster f___. I hope this car doesn't continue to bite you in the a$$. This is no way to start ownership of a car. 

 

Best of luck.

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[williamoss]

This is no way to do business. Did you pay with credit card? If you did you have the right to dispute the charge. I for one would cancel the purchase as these cars are expensive enough with out all the headaches you mentioned.

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[Rap]

I would go to a lawyer to figure out the best avenue to take. Preparation prior to execution generally leads to better results.

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[MLB]

This highlights the problems I have with PPIs. Its a nice idea, but its total BS in practice, IMHO. The PPI shop has no real incentive to do a good job for you. They have no idea of your standards and expectations. It can only work well if youre lucky enough to find someone who knows about and cares about the car in question. And cares about doing a good job. Theres no clear guidance (unless you are quite explicit) about what things are deal breakers. Sorry to hear about your troubles, and hope the work you put in pays you back in satisfaction.

Again just my opinion...

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[Rap]

If you are paying for a PPI then there is the incentive. If the shop did an inadequate job then there are means to let people know of their poor service. The internet makes it relatively easy to post info online to let people know that perhaps this is not a shop to utilize.

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[MLB]

Too little too late if youve already bought the car. A bad experience is most likely lost in the noise.

My point is that a PPI is not worth much. Maybe nothing. No substitute for going over the car yourself in person with some clear ideas of what will cause you to walk away. Hard to convey that to a PPI provider.

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[ds968]

I also think PPIs are overrated and offer little or no value, other than perhaps identifying a few superficial flaws while likely missing major issues. Unless your PPI is performed by Flash, or by Max ( RS Barn ) who know these finicky cars inside and out, it's going to be mostly a waste of money . And if you really find a shop you can trust to look at every nook and cranny with a magnifying glass the cost would probably be prohibitive . And even then you may end up with unpleasant hidden surprises ( variocam pads with deep grooves, head gasket ready to give up, pinion bearing issue , fire wall with hairline cracks , etc. etc.. ).


I bought my first 968 sight unseen, and without any PPI . It turned out to be almost perfect - except for one " little " thing : the pinion bearing . No PPI would have discovered that issue unless done by someone who previously had a correctly diagnosed 968 pinion problem and fixed it to compare the pre and post repair sound. ( most mechanics will tell you that's just a normal whine sound these particular cars make ) .


I think Polska23's experience is just unfortunate, but doubtful any other shop performing the PPI would have caught many of those problems.

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[flash]

this has been my overwhelming experience with a PPI.  shops do a cursory inspection, but almost never do things like break out the paint meter, measure brake pads or rotor grooves.  heck, i have yet to see any reports of anybody smelling the oil or doing an A/F check.  you don't usually get detailed reports or pics of seat wear, carpet discoloration, or anything like that.  in a proper inspection you should get no less than 20 high resolution pics, showing things like paint chips and such.

 

doing a proper inspection takes at least 4 hours plus parts (yes, parts).  heck, it's a good 45 minutes plus parts just to pull the valve cover to inspect the variocam.  you have to do that though, to know how the engine has been maintained.  a proper inspection includes at least a compression test and preferably a leakdown test.  most shops won't spend that much time, because people won't pay for it.  i'm not defending this particular shop (i have never even heard of them), but we really can't blame the shops.  more often than not, it's the customers that are the problem, because they don't want to spend what it would cost to really look at everything.

 

even if you do a proper inspection, you can easily miss stuff.

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[968Syncro]

even if you do a proper inspection, you can easily miss stuff.

 

Yeah, exactly, having a second (experienced) person inspecting the car can be very valuable.  I think the paid PPI is a good idea.  Maybe it has been a while, but they used to be about $200 or $250 which I always found money well spent if someone is spending some tens of $k on a car.  I've used the PPI to negotiate lower prices way less than the PPI cost.

 

I guess it is less valuable if:

- you fly to inspect the car.

- you jack it up in the sellers driveway to inspect underneath.

- you do you own compression test.

- you actually remember to bring a flashlight and a checklist to the car inspection.

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[flash]

that price is exactly the problem.  clearly they are not anticipating or planning on spending the time actually needed.  they know that customers will not pay the $500 needed for a real inspection.  proof of the need is the charge to certify any new car for CPO.  they ding you for a minimum of $1000.  that makes sense, as they tack on keystone markup.  simple math.  $500 plus keystone equals $1000.

 

a plane ticket might be cheaper.

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[Rap]

Max did mine for the track car and found some things that helped lower the price while identifying things that were ok but should be attended to. So I found it worth it. I will do this again on the shell or roller i find for the next version. Money well spent.

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