[H2Ojazz]

Some of us must have shivered at the Hershey Tech session when those words were uttered. I certainly can't afford to toss my 968 away, I saved for a long time to buy it, but I absolutely love driving it, both on the road and in DE, and am trying to do more track days each summer (signed up for 7 days at WG this season).



If I could have afforded to I would have kept my old 944 and made it a track car, but with towing, storage, and added maintenance cost -- its not realistic for me (hey, they just don't pay trombonists that well) and just not gonna happen.



How many here do DE and how much?



Explain your answer, show your work, no looking at your neighbor's answer. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Thanks!



Bill

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[S_Cal968]

I think many owners are faced with the same dilema. Once they have a taste of how fun it is to drive the 968 they want to see what it'll do on a track. On the other hand for most this is a daily driver. The choice becomes shall I beat the crap out of my daily driver or get another car[??].

In my case the closest track is 3+ hours away and I've considered getting a truck that can trailer the car. Or get another car for track use only. Either way it's a pricey hobby...

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[vnarma]

I DE my 968, and regularly autocross her. The risks on DE are as high as they are on the street. If you look at all the posting here and on other forums, I'd say street driving has a higher potential for damage. How many posts have you read on 968's get wacked on the raod, versus the number of stories from DE. Yes, there is a risk, and if you "oops" the damage will likely be greater as the speeds are high. It depends on your goal. Personally, I want to enjoy to look, and drive my 968 as often as possible. Being able to open her up on the track is too sweet to miss. I do about 25 autocrosses, and 10-15 DE days per year.

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[Anchorman]

I also "shivered" when I heard that philosophical approach. Nice thought, but - at least for me - totally impractical. Currently I drive my car daily +/- 20k miles annually. I've done 4 DE days a year for the last several years; this year I'm expecting to do 6 days. One of the reasons I don't have a stopwatch in the car for the DE times is that I don't want to be motivated to press for better lap times, and possibly end up doing something I don't want, or I'm not ready, to do. I'm there for fun, and for the "extreme" driving - but at 7/10 or so, not at 9/10 or 10/10. There was one session last time out where I went out with a group that was too fast for me. Rather than trying to stick with them, I came off the track. I knew I was over my head.

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[H2Ojazz]

I'm not obsessed with being fast, either. I enjoy improving technically and sometimes getting into the "zone" when driving DE. It is one of the most enjoyable things I can think of, but I do dread balling up my car (and that phone call home <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />)



I have done about 10-12 days of DE in last five or six years. I spun twice, both times in my old 944, once at LRP, once at the Glen. Sacred the Bejesus out of me, but didn't hit anything and kept on going at events. I guess a lot of folks spin but it still was very sobering and I felt like an idiot.



Anyway, I'm still drawn back. Sent another check off today for 2 more days at Watkins Glen.

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[flash]

very common dilemma for sure - even with open budgets, it's still a problem



as a stop-gap, i had an enclosed trailer built to drag it back and forth to the track so that i can stop worrying about the folding, spindling and mutilating and then not being able to get home - stuff happens and you can't avoid it - heck, i bent a wheel on the fun run in PA



i plan to do a couple of DE events with this car, but am moving off to a race car very soon (yes, it will be a cab)

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[Anchorman]

OMG - you bent one of those beautiful HRE wheels? Ouch. I was perfectly thrilled with my Carrera III wheels until I saw yours at Hershey. Now I'm thinking...

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[flash]

yeah - BIG pothole on the funrun - i was worried when i hit it - didn't feel anything wrong, but when i got to the trailer and was hooking up the straps i saw a wiggle on the inside right rear lip - not bad - i should have bumped the tire pressure up a couple of pounds in anticipation of the rough roads, but neglected to do that - oh well - easy to fix - the beauty of a spun modular rim over a cast rim

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[josephsc]

I've noticed that it's a very common attitude around here (NorCal) -- I've heard the statement "if you can't afford to wreck the car, you can't afford the car on the track" many many times. I think it's the reason why a lot people run spec-Miata. I did 8 DE's last year (but not as much this year) in my 944 -- and treated as it's disposable. It's all go, no show. I think once you consider the car disposable, you're more able to push the car.

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[bob blackwell]

Bill, I only do a couple of DE events each year. When I ended up in a rungroup that was a bit faster than I was comfortable with, I pulled in and asked the starter to put me out with another group which was a bit slower. Much more comfortable (I have more than enough trophies to last my lifetime). Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[Eric_K]

It's an attention grabbing statement, "throw your car away", but it is not that far from the truth. You need to be aware of the risks. There is a good chance your insurance will not cover an on track incident (you better be intimate with the language of your policy). You may be operating without a net.



Also, not everything is under your control at the track. You could hit oil or antifreeze on the track, you could have a mechanical failure which causes an incident. You could be taken out by some clueless moron. It can happen in the blink of an eye. It just comes with the territory.



You could just lock yourself in your room and read a book, but screw that, lets go to the track! Frankly, I feel safer racing than doing DE's.

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[Renalicious]

Thankfully most DEs here (and I'm sure other places) are pretty well controlled. Do stupid things and they raise the black flags, even cancel the whole run for everyone. Any mechanical problems and you get called in. Things like that make DEs safe-ER, but there is always the chance... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/unsure.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[H2Ojazz]

I tend to run with different regions, according to my schedule. This summer I am going with 3 different ones. I have noticed striking differences in events. My home region, where I started to DE at Lime Rock, is very conservative, especially with beginners and novices. They limit passing zones, take a long time to sign a driver off or advance them to another group. Some other regions I have been with are also careful



Some other regions I have run with can be a bit wild and wooly, signing off new drivers very quickly, many passing zones (this confused me first time at the Glen). The upper run groups also tend to be a bit maniacal. Ultimately I have noticed a significant increase in the number of incidents with these clubs. I still go, but I try very hard not to get sucked into the faster, faster! mindset. My left arm gets a good workout giving passing signals.



It's all very grin inducing, I just try to be cautious and not care if I am comparatively slow, without becoming a hazard or speed bump. I'm not by nature competitive, I just like the challenge of trying to drive well and improve.

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[flash]

this is the entire issue i have with the concept of "DE" - i've said this before



while i understand the desire of everyone to drive fast in a "controlled" situation, they are after all "Driver Education" events - they are NOT a substitute for racing - if you want to race, go race



those of us who take our cars to the track are all competitive by nature, no matter how much we might claim otherwise - DE by its very nature is counter to that instinct and desire, and frustrating as a result (at least it sure is to me) - many try to drive them as if they were races (and every one of the organizers goes out of their way to tell you they are not), but tend to do it anyway, forgetting that passing in these events is for reasons of safety, and not to "get ahead of the other guy"



i hear the arguments about not wanting to hurt the car, not wanting to encur the expense of racing, etc - the fact is that it doesn't have to be all that much more money, depending on the class you run in, and the returns are a lot better



unfortunately, since these DE things are generally privately run, profit often gets in the way of safety, and you see things like what H2O is talking about - they become loosely operated private races, especially in the faster groups - however, they do it without the safety precautions and staff necessary to protect you - it's up to the individual to govern themselves, and many lack the maturity to do that effectively



use a DE to test a car's setup - i'm going to do one in a couple of weeks for that very reason - use it to work on particular skills - use it to learn to drive - that's great - it's cheaper than private track time - but then go racing and quit pretending - stock, prepared, or whatever, but do it for real



DEs are great, and i wish that more organizations offered them and required more of them to get a license, but at some point, isn't it time to move on?



rant over - handing over soapbox now

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[H2Ojazz]

Well, maybe. I really do not have any interest in racing at all. I would be VERY happy to be all alone on the track with a great instructor. I just dig driving the car as well as I can.



At some of these events I have even seen instructed drivers pass without being given a signal, I fully suspect their instructors yelled "GO!" at them, catching some slower driver by surprise.

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[flash]

could be - that is the perfect scenario for a well run DE - it's even better for private track time, which is readily available almost everywhere, and not terribly expensive if you go during the week



the latter is a perfect example though of what i was saying - instructors are usually racers making a few bucks to help pay for their racing - their instinct to race does indeed often show up in the form of pushing those they are trying to instruct - that's fine as long as it doesn't then translate to that driver trying to compete with the other drivers once the instructor is gone

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