[333pg333]

Yes I've read about the K r dk, but not known anyone with it. There are definite advantages for sure. Hmm, wonder if I can swap out my rear springs for something more substantial with the t bar delete? Have you noticed any significant changes or is the fact that you can change much more readily without the dreaded re-index?

I'll have to check into this. My pile is growing daily at an equally proportionate level that my bank balance is subsiding. sheeshhh....

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[flash]

there is a reindex solution that makes it pretty easy - check out the article at 9magazine.com



how stiff you can go depends on the shock - for example, the ones i am running max out a bit over 600#

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[Alter Ego]

On the practical side...



It appears that removing the bumpers front and rear are an easy and smart thing to do with regards to both car performance and prevention of big $$ repair jobs from small impacts. However, before I decide to remove my bumpers, anyone know if my auto insurance would give me a hard time if ever, (god forbid), my 968 got into an accident? Could they possibly deny coverage of repairs given the missing bumpers? Could they make a case that due to the missing OEM bumper parts, more damage was actually done? Now, THAT would suck.

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[flash]

they most likely would, especially if you have ever had a claim before that would then indicate its presence



logical or not, the point you bring up, as well as liability concerns, is why this is not something i recommend for a street car - personally i am prepared to write the car off as a loss, and consequently don't care about the insurance issues - not everybody is prepared to do that

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[sguy]

Eric, In response to your inquiry about sitting in a formula ford, no you don't, it is more like lay down. Your feet end up just behind the radiator and your back is just in front of the gas tank. This car is relatively roomy for a FF, the previous owner is 6' 4" and 250 lb and he had enough room. I took 85 lb off the weight of the car/driver now, that's 7% decrease <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> The low weight and pure function of the car is part of my attraction to formula cars for racing. but they would be very tedious on a road trip <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Cheers, Stephen



   

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[frogisland]

I was under the impression that the balance of these cars was pretty important too - in fact one of their plus points. All this 'lightening' seriously upsets this. To such an extent that some of the UK racers keep their torsions in place, albeit disconnected, to maintain the distribution.



My car, a CS in almost identical spec to Pazzers (except KRDK), weigh's in at 1285kg (no fuel, no driver, no aircon, all carpets/shelf etc still in place) with 49/51 front/rear distribution. I've driven Pazzers car (with the rear carpet/shelf removed so c13kg off the back, battery at front, c12kg less from KRDK) and the back end does move aound alot, especially under braking/turning in. He has/will remove alot of weight from the front which should even it up some. The rear end of these cars certainly appear great deal easier to lighten than the front (carpets/shelf/seats/glass hatch) - IMHO it is the front that should be concentrated on, unfortunately this is more difficult/greater sacrifices to be made.



Would be interested in the views from some of the pure racers out there - what distribution do you have, noticed distinct effects from taking too much off the rear etc?



Nevertheless, it is entertaining seeing Pazzer's car slowly being stripped - as we have talked about over numerous coffee's, after this first round of binning the excess weight, the next round really will be difficult - trying to lose a few more kilo's. Mind you, more worrying is that fact that the ratio his car has been in bits off the road against on the road and driveable by about 3 years to 3 days....i'm sure he's more interested in taking it apart than driving it. So boys (the UK boys)....despite how 'concerned' we may be getting at Pazzer's mods and stripping out, worry not, we have nothing to fear - he'll do one day on the track then his car will be off the road for the next 6 months whilst he sets to it again (personally i think he does this to stop his other half from driving it......probably worried she'll be quicker on the track <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ....and certainly more attractive <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> . Carry on eating the pies Chris. Meat and tatty Wright's pie coming up <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



.......and you should see the state of his Lear jet <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Come Chris, photo's please.



It was a trifle chilly today, but good to see a few cars on track.



JP

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[flash]

it's even worse on a cab, which is front heavy by about as much as a hatchback is tail heavy



balance is important, but not everything - it can be worked around



i too would prefer to see weight taken off the front rather than the rear - to that point, i moved the battery to the rear to try to make up for some of my changes



so far, i have removed about 240lbs from my cab, over 100lbs of that from the rear, and only about 65lbs from the front, with the rest being in the cockpit - i exacerbated the weight imbalance a bit, but have been easily able to counter it with springs, new custom sway bars and brake bias adjustment - the car feels very balanced



the key was throwing out porsche thinking and common preconception, and starting over

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[PJS917]

JP,



Good to see you this morning, nice to see the CS being used daily. I am not worried about Pazzers weight loss, on days like today the track conditions were a great leveller (all track days should be damp <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ) Only a few cars were able to put the power down, most just slid around like me, I even kept a GT3 honest for a short while, now where have a read about that sort of thing before <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



The way Paz is going with his weight loss, he will have to come in when it rains as his wiper motor and mech will surely go in search of the last few kilo gains <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Anyway great day all left unscathed. can't wait till next year. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[333pg333]

Headlight delete, shift battery, lighter alt, remove p/s & a/c, some wiring, carbon hood, f/g fender panels...etc it can be done. The hood is an easy one provided you can find a decent c/f copy.

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[flash]

surprisingly not much weight loss there though - the factory hood only weighs 39lbs - i looked into having a paint grade carbon fiber one made that would mount the same as oem - can get it done, at a cost of about a grand a unit in quantities of 10 - weight savings would be about 25lbs



fenders only save about 3lbs each



it all adds up though, and probably enough to balance it back out



the fans are ridiculously heavy - i've been meaning to look into VW fans to replace them - that is one fairly simple place to lose a few



probably a ton to be saved in wiring - not sure what they were thinking, but there is an awful lot of back and forth of copper - lol - with the cost of copper now, i am almost afraid to leave the car outside overnight



of course, losing some off of the nut behind the wheel would help

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[333pg333]

968 hood must be quite a bit lighter than 951 but still a decent weight savings when lbs are hard to find. I haven't definitive figures but lifting both the stock 951 and the c/f version show a significant difference. Agreed that they're not cheap so the fallacy of lightening being the cheapest form of speeding the car up is not always the case. Your fans are also different but I'm pretty sure you can change them out too.

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[Eric_K]

I have taken a lot off and my car and it is about as 50/50 as you can get. With me and 1/4 tank of gas in the car, it is 3 lbs heavier in the rear. Yes, a whole 3 lbs.



I have kept the front bumper but have ditched the back. In some accidents it may spread the damage but it will help in many others. In the few incidents I have had on track the bumper has definitely helped - by bouncing you off what you hit before the wall or other car can get into the suspension or oil cooler. Without the bumper, the fender and cover would give way and the first solid contact would be with the suspension or frame. The bumper also provides quite a bit of support to the front bumper cover. When my car was nosed into a tire wall, I think the bumper cover would have been ripped off without the bumper supporting it. It is also a good spot to mount your tow hook.



Sadly, the spot needing the most weight loss is the driver.

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[pazzer]

fair comments Eric,never thought about the towing eye location, maybe i shall keep the bumper in the front. does jason judd work at paragon, thinking of getting a new manual rack and associated parts from them in the new year, at least i know its right first off, regards pazzer. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

i am wrestling with the tow eye issue - still working that out - since my rear bumper is there, albeit modified, i put a tow eye in that one - i still want one up front though, and have a couple of ideas



the front bumper cover does not touch the bumper anywhere, so there is no support there to be had - this is what actually led me to being able to remove mine with no issues



an alternate solution would be to cut it in half, thereby eliminating the potential transfer of impact from one frame rail to another, but you would again lose the front tow connection



again, i am not recommending that anyone remove or modify theirs - i did, and i am willing to risk damage, and now enjoy a lighter front end

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[Eric_K]

Pazzer - it is Jason Burkett at Paragon, not Jason Judd.



The bumper does not touch the cover, but the fog light buckets slide in between the bumper blades and it closely follows the contour of the cover. When you hit something the cover flexes. How far it flexes is limited by the bumper underneath. Also some cars, like mine, have provisions for the rear tow hook on the frame. I don't know why all cars didn't have that.

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[flash]

got a shot of that frame thingie?

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[Eric_K]

I'll assume you're talking about the rear tow hook mount. I don't have a good picture on hand. Maybe I'll take one tonight. You can see it just below the passenger side rear bumper shock mount. It lines up with the hole in the rear bumper cover. For some reason not all cars have it.

   

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[flash]

thanks - i'll look, but pretty sure i don't have it...........yet

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[Betty Humpter]

[quote name='sguy' post='43813' date='Nov 20 2007, 11:45 AM']Eric, In response to your inquiry about sitting in a formula ford, no you don't, it is more like lay down. Your feet end up just behind the radiator and your back is just in front of the gas tank. This car is relatively roomy for a FF, the previous owner is 6' 4" and 250 lb and he had enough room. I took 85 lb off the weight of the car/driver now, that's 7% decrease <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> The low weight and pure function of the car is part of my attraction to formula cars for racing. but they would be very tedious on a road trip <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Cheers, Stephen



[/quote]



LOL- after reading this it sounds like if you get in to a (bad) situation you feet and your head fry!!! That is a little spooky!!



GOD FORBID THAT HAPPENS!!

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[Eric_K]

Here is another picture of the rear tow hook mount. My previous 968 did not have one.

   

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