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Cab Rear Window Replacement
#1

Has anyone had their plastic window replaced without having the whole top replaced? The rest of the top looks pretty good.
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#2

You can replace just the rear window portion of the top but my whole top was ready to go so that was the way I went.
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#3

From following this (now immediate, for me) issue for years, it's my sense that everyone has found it economically impractical to replace just the window. The cost difference is nominal because the window is not inherently removable and replaceable. I just failed NJ inspection because of the condition of my window, but my top is in very good condition. I'm wrestling/searching for ways to restore the existing window.
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#4

So what s the price for an installed top anyway?
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#5

I'll let some folks who have done this quite recently provide whatever information they're willing to. One approach seems to be to purchase the top (and window) on eBay and then have your favorite installer do the work. Another approach (done recently by at least one owner) was to do the work himself. Supposedly not as bad a job as you might think it to be, but - at least for someone like me who uses the car daily - more time-consuming than I can afford.
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#6

I am totally burnt out on working on cars for now. I guess I will go around and see what the price difference is between buying ant taking to an installer and having the installer get it.
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#7

Ok, here goes: I just replaced my top, $1697 installed, by a great local shop and they did a terrific job. Labor was about $800, about 8-10 hours for my shop (who does this for a living). I'm in Maryland -- Bay Country Upholstery in Annapolis did the work. Other local estimates ranged from $1500 to $2300 installed. Don't pick lowest price, pick someone you trust to will it right the first time without refitting.



The top comes in two pieces and they are generally priced separately: the window section and the top section. I looked online and found prices from $500-1200 for the set (new, not installed), so be sure to look around. Good quality sets were $800-900, without installation. The head liner is sold separately; I kept my original, since it was in fine shape. I did find places that would be willing to put in just a new window, but the labor and cost to do so was almost the cost of replacing the whole top.



You'll have a choice between the more expensive ($100-300) German fabric (like the original) or the American, or other cheaper types. I can't remember the differences, but I seem to recall the German has three layers bonded together and the American had two. I also thought there was a difference in the proportions of materials (poly vs. cotton). I decided on the German, to keep it as close to original as possible. (The fabric and backing are identical to my old top) Others on this forum have chosen the American and are happy with it. If you check some online sites, they'll explain the differences.



I've been told Robbins was the original Porsche manufacturer. Mine came from GAHH in California, near Robbins. Both high quality. There are differences in the quality of workmanship in tops, like: Some don't put a lip above the window or have a weird lip, so water doesn't drain to the back properly. Some use different types of plastic for the window. Stitching is actually different, and some use cotton threads (which bleach out over time), some use poly or a blend. Some don't fit as well as others; they all make their own patterns. My installer likes to work with GAHH (they only make luxury car tops) because he said they always fit perfectly (he's had others that he's had to really work hard to fit) and it's high quality, and in his 30 years in business he's never had a problem with them. When he checked the Robbins price for me, it was just an ooch more than GAHH.



Some surprises: Because the fabric is new and will stretch over time, it's a seriously tight fit to close and lock the top, but that's how you want it initially. Also, when folded up, my boot cover now fits very tight because the top fabric is stiff. I ended up with the boot cover's two corner tenaxes pulling away from the fabric, ready to tear the fabric. The shop had some of the fabric on hand so they did a nice job of putting a reinforcing corner 'patch' on the boot cover and moving the tenax fasteners out for a better fit. It blended in great, looks like that's the way the boot cover always was meant to be.



First mistake I made was drying the freshly washed window with a super soft terry cloth towel, like I always use on glass. Drat! It put minute scratches into the window. I now only use a microfiber towel (one that I bought to dry my crystal stemware), no more scratches.



I also bought a $4 polar fleece throw and cut it to fit in the window when I fold the top down. Per my shop's instruction, I make a small roll where the crease line of the window is (about 1/3 down from the window top), to eliminate a hard crease line. The throw also separates the plastic so the window doesn't scratch itself. A pain to remember to stop halfway when I put the top down to position the throw , but after two months, there are no new scratches on the window and no crease line.



A major recommendation from my shop is to always put the top up when I'm not driving the car (it's garaged) to keep the fabric and window fitting properly and minimize creases in the fabric and window. They also recommended that I clean the top and window with just regular car wash liquids, not to use special purpose convertible top cleaners or sealants, not to use a brush (too harsh on the fabric) and to rinse well. They also said not to use Windex or other glass window cleaners on the window, it can damage the plastic over time; just use regular car wash liquid. (I use a microfiber wash cloth, it doesn't scratch).



There are issues with buying just the window section (color match, stitching color match, installation time/effort) or with buying a used top -- first, hope that they de-installed it without damaging the edges; my shop had to cut some small parts away to remove it. I was thinking of selling it (navy blue) but it has a 2" tear in the top section and the window is badly fogged; it will be in Hershey for Anchorman to test out window cleaning and de-fogging products this weekend. Also, most of the original tops have stretched and shrunk in ways you won't know til you try to install it; mine was shrinking away from the windows, allowing some water in. And the #1 top 10 issue: they tend to look like 70's leisure suits with that white top stitching (original stitching color bleached out over time)!



See my thread on this forum "Naked Cabriolet" in the technical section for photos and other people's comments as well. Will dig out some before/during/after photos and post here.



Good luck, Steve! Hope this helps.
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#8

I bought my top from a company in CA, it's German canvas with window and cost me $500 (Rich and Famous 818-285-8595). I couldn't be happier with the top. I had a local top guy install it and the labor cost me $550...



Josh
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Current:
2016 Cayman S
Former:
94 968 Cab 6 Spd. Black/Cashmere D1R SC
86.5 928 Garnet Red Metallic
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#9

I was just on the Rich and Famous web site and only saw a boot, not a top, for the 968. I've sent them an email. I'm still hopeful, though, that I won't have to go the route of replacing a perfectly fine top just because the window doesn't meet some inspector's subject view.
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#10

[quote name='Anchorman' post='34596' date='Apr 24 2007, 05:25 AM']From following this (now immediate, for me) issue for years, it's my sense that everyone has found it economically impractical to replace just the window. The cost difference is nominal because the window is not inherently removable and replaceable. I just failed NJ inspection because of the condition of my window, but my top is in very good condition. I'm wrestling/searching for ways to restore the existing window.[/quote]



Anchor,

I wonder if maybe you can do a temp fix. Acrylic floor wax is used on plastic models to fill in tiny scratches and give a clear look to hard plastic windows, etc... I wonder if it would clear up the scratches at least long enough for an inspection. If the window looks much clearer when wet but clouds up when dry, it might be worth trying. This won't be as permanent a fix as polishing out the scratches or a new window but it might buy you another year.

-sp4149
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#11

Interesting thought. Yes, most of the window looks (and is) clearer, more transparent, when wet. There is one area (the "crease") that has a different characteristic - almost like a coating. Tonight, I tried scratching through that area with my fingernail and it seemed to improve. Thinking that there might be something that could be abrasively removed, I tried a mildly abrasive pad with a cleaner - but the result seemed to be more in the direction of scratching the window than it was in removing whatever appears to be on it.



Earlier this evening, Steve applied some of his detailing expertise that improved the window noticeably. However, I'm concerned that, starting from the negative (the window failed inspection), it's still not good enough to pass. More attempts to come - including picking up on the acrylic idea.
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#12

Wow Dude!



That is one great dissertation on tops. Thank You very much. I will check out GAHH.



Steve
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#13

In response to my email inquiry to Rich and Famous, I received this response: "Hello

Please call to order 818-285-8595

Anna"
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#14

[quote name='Anchorman' post='34643' date='Apr 25 2007, 07:22 AM']In response to my email inquiry to Rich and Famous, I received this response: "Hello

Please call to order 818-285-8595

Anna"[/quote]



Yes, they are pretty much phone people, there website is kind of out of date. But are nice to deal with on the phone.
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Current:
2016 Cayman S
Former:
94 968 Cab 6 Spd. Black/Cashmere D1R SC
86.5 928 Garnet Red Metallic
Reply
#15

[quote name='Anchorman' post='34637' date='Apr 24 2007, 11:10 PM']Interesting thought. Yes, most of the window looks (and is) clearer, more transparent, when wet. There is one area (the "crease") that has a different characteristic - almost like a coating. Tonight, I tried scratching through that area with my fingernail and it seemed to improve. Thinking that there might be something that could be abrasively removed, I tried a mildly abrasive pad with a cleaner - but the result seemed to be more in the direction of scratching the window than it was in removing whatever appears to be on it.



Earlier this evening, Steve applied some of his detailing expertise that improved the window noticeably. However, I'm concerned that, starting from the negative (the window failed inspection), it's still not good enough to pass. More attempts to come - including picking up on the acrylic idea.[/quote]





Anchorman -- Since we're using my old top/window as a testing ground <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> this weekend, let's do a "cleaner bake off" and try everything ya got. I think I even have a Porsche brand plastic polish that I've never used, would be interesting to see what it does too.



Guys/gals -- if you have any suggestions that we should try, let us know before Thursday night (4/26) so we can test them out this weekend in Hershey on my old fogged window. We'll post results next week.



banditsc - thanks for the info about your costs...sounds like you got a good deal!
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#16

Agreed - let's go for the gusto. I don't know that I'll be able to bring my little battery-powered orbital, so if someone can bring a real (electric) orbital, that'd be great. I'm going to pay a visit this afternoon to a local shop that specializes in interiors and tops and see what they suggest.
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#17

So, I went to a local interior and top shop. They said they could install: (i) a new window for $375; (ii) a new rear panel with the window for $575 (but the panel wouldn't perfectly match the remaining sections of the top); or (iii) a new top for $1800. I'm making no decision right now, but if a business deal I'm working on comes in, which I should know about in the next day(s), then it'll be a new top. And a paint job. And then wrestling with the "high class" problem of which to do first. C'mon, business deal angel, smile upon me.



(The next day...) It looks like the deal angel is smiling upon me. The money's not in the bank yet, but I'm starting to plan for LAST968 to get a new look! The car will never again look quite as sad as it will at the upcoming Celebration.
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#18

(Sigh of relief...) The deal came through, the money is in the bank, and I'm going to have the car painted and a new top installed. I have an appointment for a respray estimate tomorrow at DJ's in Morristown, NJ. I have a feeling that I'll gasp when I hear the number, as I understand that DJ is particularly known for his Porsche restoration work, so he may offer me a finer result than is appropriate for a daily driver. But, we'll see. I may start a separate thread for the respray so that I can solicit opinions about how to get a "good enough" job that isn't drop-dead gorgeous.



There's an upholstery shop near DJ that I'll go to for an estimate on the new top.
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#19

the key to any paint job is in the prep - spend the money there - remove the old paint - don't let them just sand and shoot over the old paint



this also means though that you will likely have to get involved in the process - you will have to make a couple of trips down there to see they are doing it right



to really get it, they will need to remove the body panels - it is impossible to shoot the doors and such and not leave a tape line any other way



plan for the car to be gone a LONG time - mine took 3 months - don't expect that you will get it in less than a month
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#20

His telephone timing estimate was at least three weeks to do the job. Then there's the top replacement time (before or after the repaint). So, on top of everything else, I'll probably be looking at at least a month of rental car charges. I wonder what Earl Scheib would charge?



It appears that you've returned safely, Flash. It was good to see you. Sorry that I didn't have the opportunity to have a little run with the Flashmobile - the reviews I've seen are quite complimentary.
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