[flash]

Over the past 7 plus years of owning the blue car, I have had no less than a dozen alignments. Some of them were good. Some of them not so much. as many have experienced, the machines were sometimes not calibrated, resulting in a "garbage in - garbage out" situation. Other times the tech just plain didn't know what he was doing. I've spent anywhere from $140 to $360 on these things, with price not seeming to make any difference in result.



Finally I found a guy who both knows what he is doing, and has accurate gear. On top of that, he was the easiest guy I think I've ever worked with.



I went in telling him what had been done, and what I was seeking. The first words out of his mouth were "Has the car been corner balanced?" Immediately I knew that I had at least found somebody who knew what he was doing. We then talked about the car, and I queried him as to his knowledge of the tools and such. He got all of those right. So, I scheduled what was to be yet another alignment appointment, including a corner balance.



I had been messing around with this car so much, and setting and resetting the ride height and such, that I had pretty much mangled my corners. It was time to get it corner balanced. He spend about an hour and a half on that, and in the end, i was within 5-10lbs at each corner, but more importantly i was criss cross and left to right perfect. YeeHa!



Then it was off to the alignment portion. I had been trying to reduce my rear negative camber, since I have bigger swaybars, and all the braces, and consequently no longer need so much. I had been having continual issues with this, essentially being unable to get below -2 degrees. This left the outside edge of the tire in the air. Not good.



After about 45 minutes of up and down and playing with it, he nailed it exactly at the -1.6 degrees that I wanted. After that, the front was easy.



When all was said and done, I finally had the predictable balance that I wanted, with the angles I wanted.



Time to drive.



I HIGHLY recommend this guy.



His name is Darrin, and the shop is West End Alignment on Vermont Ave in Gardena.



Cost is $250. Cash or Check only. Don't even think about quibbling though. The price is what it is, and he knows that it's worth every penny. Expect at least a week lag before you can get in.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Glad you had such a great experience. It's so satisfying when you find someone who knows what he's doing, and it sounds like he didn't try talking you out of the settings you were looking for.



Did the $250 include the corner balance? If it did, it's a steal. Even if it didn't, $250 is very fair for a top-flight alignment on these cars,

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Rap]

Hope this isn't a dumb question or one that has been discussed in a previous thread, but are there specific settings to a regular car like mine Bob which you would take to someone and ask him to set at?Since you have been in my car I don't need to define regular.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

the price included the corner balance - i was stunned



there are specs, for different setups, right here on this site - do a search for "alignment specs" - you'll find a couple of different setups there that i have found to be very good for street use

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

"the price included the corner balance - i was stunned"



That is amazing. The shop I had mine done at a few years ago charged six hours labor for corner balance plus alignment, so you can do the math on the price. I have no reason to suspect it wasn't a good job, but $250 for a top-flight job is outstanding.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

he was fast too - in and out in about 3 hours - i watched the entire process and saw the readings myself - he nailed it



keep in mind that everything on the car is fairly new though, and i keep it clean of dirt and stuff

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

I find it almost unbelievable that he could get both left/right and front/back "perfect". Our cars just aren't made that way. Is your battery in the back or do you have some other moveable ballast? What were the actual weights at each corner, and I assume you had half tank of gas and you (or equivalent ballast) in driver's seat?



When I'm running again, I sure hope I can find such a good alignment guy in my area. I am not optimistic.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

it really isn't that hard IF you have coilovers on all four corners and not torsion bars, like i do in my car



and yes, the battery is in the back (right rear)



i've also removed over 200lbs from the car



so, mine is not the typical example



yes, i was in the seat and yes the tank was half full



loaded as normally driven, and me and fuel as stated, corners were:



LF 845

RF 846

LR 850

RR 851

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

Actually without moveable ballast it is quite hard. Adjusting coil overs only affects cross weights (e.g. you can move weight from the left rear to the right front). If your right side (RF + RR) is heavier than your left side (LF + LR), there is nothing you can do with adjusting coil overs to change this. You were able to remove weight in the right places, not an easy task on our cars. Congrats.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

not at all - you do the same kind of thing to move things front to rear as you do to move diagonally - if you want to transfer rear to front, you either lower both fronts, or raise both rears - similarly from side to side - i watched it done on this car, and have done it for years (i no longer have my own scales or i would have done this one too - gotta get another set) - anyway, we started out quite heavy at the front, and ended up a touch heavier at the rear - yes, the largest problem was cross corners, but there was an overall shift too



remember, the key is no torsion bars - those make it nearly impossible

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[KRAG50]

Boy I would like to find an alignment shop like that one, Living in West Michigan doesn't give a person a lot of choice. Most of the shops either give an alignment base on some wide manufacturing spec, or just do what they want. You're lucky.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

Torsion bars make it more difficult, but they're just springs too.

In any case, I respectfully disagree with you on this Flash. Let's say that after getting the ride height where you want it, you end up with these corner weights. (simple example)

LF - 750   RF - 700

LR - 800   RR - 800

I maintain that it is impossible by adjusting only spring perches on adjustable coil overs to balance this car. You can only do it by adding or subtracting weight from specific points.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[bombfactory]

Flash I've heard, and read, great things about West End. They are probably the best on the west coast. I will probably be paying them a visit after the next time I dive into my suspension.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

that's the mistake most people make - you don't set the ride height first - you get it close to the mean, but not set - then you corner balance - then you set height

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

Come on. Once you set corner weights (by adjusting the coilovers), if you change ride height (by adjusting the coilovers), you change the weights on the corners. Ride height and corner weights are absolutely interconnected.



And just to be clear, we are talking about changing the preload on the springs by adjusting the spring perch, right? Completely changing to springs of different lengths is another matter.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

ride height and corner weights are NOT interconnected - ride height can be a result of corner weight when things are wrong, and visa versa, but they are truly independent of each other - the car's weight does not change because of ride height - only the corners change when you screw up - you can set any car at any height, and still corner balance it



i think i would have to explain how this is done by showing you - i'm not sure i can do it here



the first thing to understand is that almost always an adjustment to one corner means at least 1 adjustment to at least 1 other corner



if, for example, one corner is heavy or low, that does NOT mean that you raise that corner - it might mean you lower the opposing corner



if one end is low, that does NOT mean that you raise it - it might mean that you lower the other end



the same goes for side to side



many people get into trouble by thinking they need to crank up on a spring, when in reality they needed to lower another one



the first thing to do is get all of the springs at the same place on the collars, regardless of what that means in ride height



then you balance the corners



then you start adjusting ride height, rebalancing the corners as you go



it takes at least 3 times around the car to get it

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

http://grassrootsmot...corner-weights/

This is a good description to understand the concepts and the process from a well respected magazine. My points are summarized in these two bullets in the section titled "Setting cross weight" towards the end of the article.

*You cannot change the left or rear percentages by jacking weight around in the car, although this will change cross-weight.

*Changing the ride height at any corner will change the cross-weight percentage.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

i think you are misreading the article, or maybe drawing an incorrect conclusion - it pretty much says what i've been saying



like i said, it would be a lot easier to show you - basically you have to ignore the things that seem to "make sense" and do things backwards of that

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

Well could be, but I thought the article said what I'd been saying. I do have a set of corner scales and have done this a bunch of times over many years.

Anyway, I'm glad you could get your corner weights so close.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[968TDG]

Great to hear Flash,



I am finally getting the sorted out version of the monoballs from Elephant Racing, so once I do the 4th (yes, 4th) swap on those puppies, I can finally get it all aligned!



Phil

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.