[WJH]

I just had to vent. I recently replace the front seals on the crank and balance shafts. I even replaced the balance shaft bearing sleeves. I had it on the lift tonight and what did I see - TWO OIL DROPS at the front of the engine that had run down onto the pan. I can see it is not the front seal so I can only assume the upper balance shaft seal is leaking again.



I followed the book to the letter and double checked everything - what a disappointment. I really, really, really don't want to do it a second time. I wish it would heal itself!

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[986boxster1998]

It always stings that much more when you take the time to do something correct and despite best efforts something still goes wrong. Recently went through something similar on my Explorer. Its better now, but I didn't like getting back into the engine within a thousand miles of replacing all the seals and gaskets. My mother is actually from your part of Kansas; its a beautiful area.

-Dan

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[WJH]

Thanks Dan, I guess we've all been there, unfortunately!



I looked some more and and I'm fairly sure it is leaking at the upper balance shaft. I think I'll wait until it is time to retension the balance belt. As I recall, I can replace the upper balance shaft seal without pulling the timing belt or rear cover. I believe I only need to remove the rear cover if I'm replacing the large O ring on the back of the balance shaft housing. Perhaps it won't be as bad as I think.

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[mbardeen]

I'm not the best mechanic in the world, having recently started turning wrenches after a long absence. But what I lack in knowledge I make up in sheer stubborness. I got it in my head that I'd free my Jeep Cherokee from oil leaks. I got most of them the first time, but the rear main seal.... well.. it took me 8 tries to get that right. But it's now leak free!



So yeah, I feel your pain. Don't give up!

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[tamathumper]

What kind of oil are you using?

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[94SilverCab]

This stuff works on everything, just spray it al over the front of your engine...as seen on TV. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ninja.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Jay

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[rhudeboye]

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> Your an azz Jay.





WJH- If its company you’re looking for, you posted in the right place. This is the way it goes with almost everything I touch. Most recently a computer and our refrigerator (our fan went out). It gets very frustrating on labor intensive jobs where you can’t truly check your work without putting it all back together first. Then, after you replace 100 screws, washers and bolts, you discover something is off… and by now it’s getting late. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/angry.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



However, when it’s finally done, I do feel good about the money saved and a job well done. These experiences have also taught me patience.

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[kwikt]

Man.......that is f-----d up.

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[kwikt]

Don't feel bad. I just resealed my 72 911 and now my flywheel side crank seal started to leak. So out comes the engine again.....soon.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yes, that does suck, but at least be thankful it isn't the lower balance shaft seal - that thing is a nightmare to get to with the engine in the car.

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[WJH]

Thanks guys, I feel better this morning.



Mbardeen - You win the persistence award! Or perhaps the stubborn award.



Tamathumper - Based upon the records I received with the car, Mobil 1 appears to have been the oil of choice. The last owner (for 2 years) didn't keep very good records so I don't know what he used. It is due for a change so I think I'll use Mobil 1.



Jay - That's too funny. Have you tried it? Ha, ha.



My dumbest story: I used to have an 88 Chrysler minivan to haul my wife and five kids. I bought it used and kept it on the road for over ten years. Anyway, there was a damper door that had gotten stuck in the heating system. It would just blow outside air. I decided on Saturday of Easter weekend to fix it. Keep in mind we needed the van for Sunday morning. Needless to say, I made a bad choice that day. I pulled the dash that afternnoon (no manual) and didn't finish until about 3 A.M. The worst part was I broke my windshield reinstalling the dash - not a good day.



Later after I had finished I was talking to a mechanic about the problem I had. I was proud of my accomplishment. He said he knew about that and Chrysler had a TSB. You took a cordless drill and made a hole in the ductwork under the dash and you could lubricate the damper - said it took about TEN MINUTES. He thought it was funny - only now can I laugh.



Oh well, it's all fun - right?

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[tamathumper]

The reason I ask is that my car had zero leaks until the shop put fresh oil in, probably Cenpeco but I'm not sure... The car came with a note that said to strangle or fire any mechanic that recommended synthetic oil, so even though I use Mobil 1 in all my other cars, I wonder if it causes the seals on some cars to weep?



The note would indicate the previous owner had some kind of bad experience with it,...

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[mbardeen]

Synthetic is slippery stuff. The people in the Cherokee world (usually high mileage engines with lots of abuse) say to avoid it like the plague, unless you want to watch your money drip out on to your driveway.

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[DaveN]

Yup, I believe the molecules are smaller in synthetic and thus will find a hole where Dino oil won't.

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[tamathumper]

So there is at least some anecdotal support for switching back to Dino pee if your seals are weeping?

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[DaveN]

Definitely works going back to Dino for minor weeping. My S2 weeps a tiny bit on a front seal somewhere so now I run Dino oil and no drips.

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[WJH]

That synthetic oil debate can go on and on. I was reading on another form where a guy said if you switch to dino oil and your leak stops - it's still a leak you just can't see it. What ...?????

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[tamathumper]

Following that line of logic, everything leaks... Tell that guy to get back on the short bus.

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[MB968]

[quote name='tamathumper' timestamp='1334943827' post='125758']

... The car came with a note that said to strangle or fire any mechanic that recommended synthetic oil, so even though I use Mobil 1 in all my other cars, I wonder if it causes the seals on some cars to weep?



[/quote]

When users of our machinery first started using synthetic oil or cutting fluids in the '80s, we (and all machinery manufacturers) had a lot of problems with seals. We began working with a lot of the material manufacturers like Dupont to find acceptable seal materials. We ended up running a lot of accelerated soak tests in the lab to see which materials didn't react to synthetic fluids. Viton and other fluoroelastomers were the only polymers that really stood up to synthetics and didn't degrade with time. An o-ring of Viton might cost $2 instead of $.50, but it was the only way to go. Seal costs on our machines went up, but our warranty/field service costs went way down.



The typical Viton seal is either green or a medium brown color. So, they are fairly recognizable. I haven't looked at them all, but have noticed that the new seals that I've purchased all appear to be Viton or another brand fluoroelastomer. I specifically called Paragon before purshasing their front seal kit to make sure they knew about Viton and were supplying such with their kits. I was pleased that they knew exactly what I was talking about; so I placed my order.

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[WJH]

[quote name='MB968' timestamp='1334965944' post='125781']

When users of our machinery first started using synthetic oil or cutting fluids in the '80s, we (and all machinery manufacturers) had a lot of problems with seals. We began working with a lot of the material manufacturers like Dupont to find acceptable seal materials. We ended up running a lot of accelerated soak tests in the lab to see which materials didn't react to synthetic fluids. Viton and other fluoroelastomers were the only polymers that really stood up to synthetics and didn't degrade with time. An o-ring of Viton might cost $2 instead of $.50, but it was the only way to go. Seal costs on our machines went up, but our warranty/field service costs went way down.



The typical Viton seal is either green or a medium brown color. So, they are fairly recognizable. I haven't looked at them all, but have noticed that the new seals that I've purchased all appear to be Viton or another brand fluoroelastomer. I specifically called Paragon before purshasing their front seal kit to make sure they knew about Viton and were supplying such with their kits. I was pleased that they knew exactly what I was talking about; so I placed my order.

[/quote]

That's good information, especially those of us with old 944 cars. Do you have an idea of when the seal changes occurred in cars?

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