[Chris Vais]

As some of you might remember, I was RIF'd this past February from a job that I had held for 27.5 years. After a long and frustrating job search, frustrating because age discrimination is alive and well in this country, I have a new job.



I have accepted a senior consulting position with Wil Chee-Planning, a land use planning and environmental services firm located in Honolulu, HI. The job is, for the moment, a part-time position that will go up to full time in the new year. I will be a virtual employee, continuing to live in California and work from home. I'll commute to Hawaii as required. Much of my work will be on projects in Hawaii and throughout the Pacific Basin.



At the end of the day it was my professional network that helped me secure this job. If you don't have a LinkedIn page posted, and you work in a profession where job loss is a possibility, you need to post yourself on LinkedIn.



I have known the firm that I am working for more than 20 years. We had worked together on projects all over the Pacific Basin and we shared a mutual client, who when she learned that I was out of worked, directed my new employer to consider bringing me on board, in some capacity, in order to better position themselves for a $35MM contract award. I started working for Wil Chee in September as a consultant and they offered me a permanent position in November.



Last, and by no means least, I will continue with my other job as the Assistant Winemaker at Longevity Wines.

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[vliegwielolaf1234]

Congratulations .



I have never had to deal with being out of a job , and things still look good , not many airlines can say that at the moment .



But i have been saving a bit in case things go wrong , have been thinking about it , at the end the money i can do without and i do not need a big house cars motorbikes etc etc .



But i think the hard part is going to be the fact of not working or being wanted for a job .



But good on you . i wanted to say another 27.5 years , but hopefully you can retire before that .

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[Cloud9...68]

Congrats. I, to, have never had the misfortune of being out of a job, but have seen plenty of people walked out the door at my company. Often, those who were RIF'd were good employees, who just happened to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time (e.g. part of a product line that the company decided was no longer strategically necessary). Let's hope the economy improves enough that all of us have a little more job security going forward.

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[Rap]

Good news Chris I know it's a weight that has been removed from your shoulders. As much as some might not like to admit it, our jobs are often a lot of who we are and the loss of them leaves a void. This is true even in retirement. Glad to see you back on the horse!

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[ds968]

Great news, congrats Chris ! People say that a job does not define who you are and whilst that may be partially true, it is such a major and integral part of one's life and sense of purose that being RIFd and until the next job it can traumatize a person to the point where it affects all aspects of their life, family, and for some even their health. Glad you're " back in the saddle " and with the added bonus of a pretty decent venue to do it in ;-)

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[flash]

very cool indeed!!!

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[craigawoodman]

Chris,



Working in the mining industry, it is the fourth bust that I have been through. I am going to be released in January, but this is the third time - so it is not too bad (we actually get paid to leave through "redundancy". I agree on the Linkedin comment, you need to keep your professional networks up to date, as they are more likely to find you a new job.



The bright side of my situation is hopefully the change in roles will mean a move back to the East Coast of Australia, rather than the West Coast.



As per Rap's post - the hard thing is to not take it personally and move on. It is difficult if you are not willing to relocate, but for us, we should have been either gypsy's or snail's - it would be a darn sight easier to move house if we were.



Congrat's on the new job. Travelling to Hawaii must be good for the sole (if you can get a couple of days R&R per trip).



Interesting on the comparison in terms of employment - here in Australia - average employment periods are around 3 years prior to moving (by choice). We don't have the long term employment that occurs in the USA (our annual leave is not linked to length of service - 4 weeks regardless, but we get Long Service Leave - 8 weeks in addition as a one off, at 15 years service and then every 5 years after). We also tend to have a much more mobile society.



Even though I think I could handle retirement now, I am sure my wife (and my bank balance) need me to continue to work.



I also think American companies treat their employees better than Australian companies. Australian Management seems to be very Darwinian - kill and competition before it takes your role.



It makes you ask the question - "if all companies keep telling us - our employees are our greatest asset - why do they treat them as a cost, not an asset?"



Perhaps a bit too philosophical prior to Christmas.



By the way - Christmas over here is going to be 37 degrees Celcius - no snow likely. We will be inside with the Air Conditioning going. Hope everyone has a great Christmas (or Holidays to be politically correct for those in the USA) and New Year.

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[Rap]

Craig, although I don't necessarily subscribe to what I am about to say I do understand it as a business principle. Employee's are both assets and expenses. When the expense of the asset is greater than the value of the asset then expense/benefit ratio's come into play. All of we middle aged people know it is cheaper for us to be replaced by a younger worker. You can argue that our experience has a greater value than the less expensive and younger worker but that extra value is relative. If the younger worker can produce or service at a lower cost for a majority of the job requirements then their value is greater than the older worker. Why, because they are a lesser expense all around. The value we bring through experience can be taught and trained to the younger employee even within the expense of the time frame of a learning curve. When it's possible we do it. It happens within the framework of hiring for an open slot though not a created open slot. We are a poor example because we hire those that no one would look at. Some days rightfully so!

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[craigawoodman]

Rap,



If employees are an asset, why don't we look at the value that they create? Management is very good at looking at the direct costs of labour - but not the indirect costs of labour (and indirect costs within the business itself).



It is going off thread, but I used to bash my head against a wall to describe the situation here during the mining boom, where we had well educated but practically useless (academically brilliant, but practically useless) people hired into roles that they were nowhere near competent to fill. The example goes like this;



There is a big difference between Education, Training and Competence. Most formal trainers will tell you that they are all one and the same thing, however I disagree and I think you will see my point soon. If you have teenage kids - you will probably not have a major issue with the school they attend providing sex eduation to them. However, if the school was to also offer sex training and promise to make your children fully competent at sex, you would probably not be very happy at all.



Education is the instilling of new ideas and concepts. Training is the formative application of those new ideas and concepts into the practical world (normally in some form of safe or controlled environment), competency means that you can apply those new ideas and concepts yourself practically. All of these however, do not get you to mastery where you kow the concepts and ideas and how they are applied and how to influence the outcomes of usung them versus other alternative ideas and concepts in a given situation. We do not value competency or mastery.



I have been doing a major organisation change/systems and efficiency program for one of the world's major mining houses. I keep referring to the statement - "the level of thinking that got you into this problem is normally not sufficient to get you out of it". We have endemic problems that people have accepted for the last 10 years that now we somehow think by osmosis that everyone will recognise and simply change their ways. These are well trained people - who simply follow, they have never reached a point of mastery or wisdom on "why" they do the things that they do. THis normally takes some level of grey hair.



Look at other cultures - age provides normally some form of wisdom (i.e. we have tried and failed and learnt through the process). A lot of the current generation have never been through a downturn - it is scary to them and they cannot cope.



So, if you can hire someone who can do 100% plus of a role, or someone who can do 60% and you have to train them, etc - which would you choose?



Do sporting teams hire and then play cheap players who only make 60% of the grade and expect to win?



This is a failing of Management to recognise and reward those that truely create value to the business (versus the fat cats in the top of the tree of monkeys).



This is starting to change over here - and not soon enough. We need to reward people who create value - not those who simply cost less - you cannto cost cut your way to success.

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[Chris Vais]

The consulting engineering industry, in which I'm employed is pretty straight forward is a straight forward business model. We sell "brains by the hour". The company that let me go is a publicly traded company. In today's business world, the success of a publicly traded company is measured by its annual growth in revenue. As you might expect the great recession made financial and growth plans impossible to meet. The only way for a consulting company to improve its financial picture, in a down market, is to reduce labor costs or contract more consulting work, which is difficult to do in a down market. My former employer figured that my very well trained staff could keep up the client relationships and themselves busy without me. In fact it hasn't worked out that way because my clients are displeased with my former employer for kicking me to the curb. One thing that I learned in this industry is that if you do good work for your clients they'll follow you where ever you go.



Bottom line is that I think that I have landed a really great opportunity.

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[craigawoodman]

Chris,



I agree - the consulting industry is just that - relationships with people, not businesses. You work with people that you trust and indeed you follow where they go, simply because they are good and you know that you will get a good outcome by engaging them in the first place.



People work with people - not with organisations (which by definition are a group of people working towards a common goal).



I can understand that consulting is really brains by the hour - but what appears to happen is a value statement that less equals more - never really the case. More for same, more for less, or even possibly more for more are all value statements - not less for less. It is dissappointing that management only see short term solutions (well society in general only looks short term) and in this case only on a limited set of participants (themselves keeping their "overhead" positions - not on where the real value of the business is created - the value creators.



Either way - it sounds like you have a great outcome, but have had to go through a bummer of a process to get there. My condolances, but you now know that when the chips are down, we are all really only a number to management, who always think they an simply replace us with a click of their fingers.



Have a great Christmas - even a non-white one in California. Hawaii still sounds like a great place to visit from time to time, so hopefully a much better job and location/conditions - sorry about the hassles to achieve it.

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[Rap]

Craig I agree with all you say. Go back to my first sentence. Everyone of my employee's, from housekeeping to the top interacts with our patients everyday. The core strength in our company is a group of employee's who have been on board 20-30 years. Not all are as good as I might like, but they know what their jobs are and perform them. The value here, that I see, is in our attempt to transfer their knowledge and expertise to younger employee's. They are able to do this within a culture that demands and encourages this behavior with the carrot being.......they are not going to be replaced when that knowledge transfer is complete or far enough along. We hire people no one will touch and keep people longer than perhaps they deserve, but we sell hope to our patients and damn well can't say what to do without doing it ourselves. There are many diamonds in the rough in the employment scene and its managements job to not only ferret them out but to provide a platform by which they can be trained and made competent and valued employee's. It is very labor intensive but can be rewarding. If we used normal productivity values in assessing our people we would be firing and hiring large numbers of employee's everyday. This of course is a management responsibility.

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[94SilverCab]

[quote name='Chris Vais' timestamp='1356249554' post='136553']

The consulting engineering industry, in which I'm employed is pretty straight forward is a straight forward business model. We sell "brains by the hour". The company that let me go is a publicly traded company. In today's business world, the success of a publicly traded company is measured by its annual growth in revenue. As you might expect the great recession made financial and growth plans impossible to meet. The only way for a consulting company to improve its financial picture, in a down market, is to reduce labor costs or contract more consulting work, which is difficult to do in a down market. My former employer figured that my very well trained staff could keep up the client relationships and themselves busy without me. In fact it hasn't worked out that way because my clients are displeased with my former employer for kicking me to the curb. One thing that I learned in this industry is that if you do good work for your clients they'll follow you where ever you go.



Bottom line is that I think that I have landed a really great opportunity.

[/quote]



Well said Chris...and congrats on the new job. You know by experience, that I use every bit of LinkedIn as a tool for my business life.



Jay

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[PorscheG96]

Congrats Chris, very glad to see that you've found work again and you seem very excited.

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[Cloud9...68]

You hear anecdotes about people who lose their jobs in an economic downturn, only to end up in a situation better than the one they had originally, which never would have presented itself had the original RIF not happened. Here's hoping yours is a real life example of this phenomenon. Merry Christmas, and best of luck with the new job in the new year.

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[MB968]

Chris, I never worked in the consulting engineering area, always having a full time job at a company. But I have some engineer friends who were consultants. It can be an up and down ride; and with age it can get difficult in landing new work. After such a long time off, you must be feeling pretty good about your new work; especially when someone that you did work for pulls you in. Good luck in the new venture. And, tough break having to deal with all that Hawian weather.

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[Chris Vais]

Thanks all



When my Father was my age he experienced the same thing. Thirty-three years with the same firm and then cut loose. It took him a year to find another job and it was the best job of his life. Sadly, he was stricken with cancer and died three years later. There is a co-gen powerhouse over at Stanford Univ. that the design and construction of, was his last project. It reflects his sense of aesthetics and design expertise and I am lucky to drive past it periodically.



Like my Dad I expect this new job will the best.



Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and Happy New year to you all.



Chris

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[MB968]

Nice story, must please you to be reminded of your dad when you drive past some of his work. Thanks for sharing.



Merry Christmas and Hapy Holidays to All.

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[Chris Vais]

Just reviving an old post to let you all know that I have changed jobs. I've accepted a Principal Consultants position with EORM. EORM provides Environmental Health and Safety consulting services to the who's who of high tech, biotech, social media, pharma, and electronics manufacturing. Because the firm consults to a very forward thinking clients, it is model after and operates like a high tech firm. My role will be to broaden the companies practice by bringing remediation services to our clients.



The job comes with a collateral duty. I will be joining the faculty at San Jose State University as a part time lecturer in the School of Engineering.



For those of you who don't make use of social media, EORM found me on LinkedIn.

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[94SilverCab]

Who knew they looked at the Porsche 968 group to make hiring decisions... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/glare.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Good luck with the new position!



Jay

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