Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

August 2, 2011
#21

i have a friend who is making a killing on the market as a result of what is going on
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply
#22

Yeah, definitely an ugly scene. And you're right, DS, it IS real money, and your expressing it in terms of 9689 coupe value equivalents is a nice (and relevant!) way to tie it to reality.



It looks to me like the debt ceiling deal played a very minor part in the recent market debacle. The markets seem to be most spooked by the debt crisis in Europe. Imagine that, promising cradle-to-grave benefits to all your citizens, and getting in way over your head in debt to finance it (proving you couldn't afford it in the first place), causing serious problems. Whodda thunk it?
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#23

the benefits are not what caused the problem there or here



here is due largely to the idiotic concept that we should allow people to make as much money as they want without paying their fair share, and i'm as guilty as the rest at doing everything i can to avoid paying more than i have to - if we had a flat tax, and a requirement of a balanced budget, we would be able to afford just about anything



but then all the lobbyists, accountants, and lawyers in washington would be out of work



the other issue that brought us to where we are is our dependence on oil, driven by those same fat cats, which leads us to have to protect that interest overseas, resulting in a ridiculous military cost - if we got off of oil and onto a better fuel, which is readily available with the infrastructure already in place (if the oil companies would only allow it) then we wouldn't have to go overseas, spend all that money, and get into such debt



but then the military would be out of work



so yeah, those cradle-to-grave benefits from profiteering at the public's expense are killing us
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply
#24

"if we got off of oil and onto a better fuel"





Oy veh (sp?)! Please, name a fuel that beats oil in terms of:





- Heat content

- Ease of extraction

- Ease of processing

- Ease of transportation

- Ease of storage (gaseous fuels are out)

- Cost





Yes, there may be a few that may arguably beat it in one or two categories, but there simply isn't anything remotely in the realm of even being close to being close to matching oil's overall capability and versatility as a fuel. Yes, there are entrenched interests who benefit greatly from keeping the world running on oil, but if some miracle, yet undiscovered fuel were to spring forth from the bowels of the earth, wouldn't you expect the same sorts of cartels and such to develop around it? For example, guess where a large percentage of the world's lithium reserves are located? Bolivia, run by that prince of a guy, Evo Morales.





We're "stuck" with oil for many decades (my guess is centuries) to come.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#25

Can't wait to see the results of lowering the US debt rating from AAA for the first time in history.



How do I know that whatever happens to us, that Goldman Sachs will somehow end up showing larger profits and that unemployment will go up, leaving the middle class with even less money.



I agree with a flat tax, and even more with a national sales tax. Every person should pay their share, how much fairer could we get? If there was a 10% (pick a number that makes us revenue neutral) tax on everything (except housing, clothing, food and medical). The government could collect on all of the money flowing in the "cash economy" and administration would be fraction of what we spend on the IRS today.



How do we encourage corporations to build jobs and manufacturing in the US? High tarrifs?, Lower taxes? eliminate the minimum wage? I don't have an answer for this, but corporations will never do anything out of the good ness of their hearts, they need to be incentivized. I have one suggestion, that the highest paid employee of any company can not, by law, make more than 50 times what the lowest paid employee makes.



We need to educate children and make sure that they are prepared for the world of work. Families living on public assistance for generations need to get off the dole...if you want to get paid, get out there and clean up highways, take care of the sick, or get more education for a limited amount of time, and then you are on your own, sink or swim. The only people in this society who need to be protected are children (who need to be nurtured and educated) and those who are legitimately incapacitated (and they should work to their level). Everyone else, be responsible for your own life.



If you are in this country illegally, you are a criminal, get out or we will throw you out.



No more foreign aid, the Middle East can send us money and oil for a while...they've been sucking us dry for generations...if we beat you in a war, your treasure belongs to us....



Oh my god, I just read this over, I'll never be allowed back in California again [Image: dry.gif]



Jay
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#26

Term limits are a better way than allowing gov't statisticians to play with that 3 percent figure. I asked a week or two ago the members position on trimming portfolios or building cash. Everyone who chimed in was of the mind that one should stay the course. Yesterday despite all your sound and sensible advice and despite the fact that it runs contrary to my training and beliefs, I sold 50 percent of my portfolio. Surprisingly enough and although the contrarian position of this move lingers, I feel pretty good. Can't and won't defend it, but still feel it was a decent move. Any thoughts. I will not be offended by criticism!
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#27

"I sold 50 percent of my portfolio. Surprisingly enough and although the contrarian position of this move lingers, I feel pretty good. Can't and won't defend it, but still feel it was a decent move. Any thoughts. I will not be offended by criticism!"



IMO, if you're < 30 may have been a bit rushed , if you're > 50 not a bad decision.. I should have probably done the same thing and am still seriously considering it. Getting rid of 100% is definitely ill-advised, but half is perfectly sane / logical.. again, IMO.



Listening to "experts" will get you in trouble, so go with your gut feel. My undergrad degree is in Economics, and I can't make any sense out of how things are unfolding right now, much less predict what will probably happen, as others profess and just love to give advice <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#28

As to Jay's post, the overwhelming majority of people in this country ( including California <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ) favor a flat tax, the overwhelming majority ( again. including California <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ) also favor cutting any and all foreign aid, cutting military spending , and many of the other suggestions in this entire thread, and have for many years now, so why TF isn't this happening ?! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#29

cloud - it isn't about whether a particular fuel has a higher energy content or not - we don't need the easiest to make or highest energy content fuel - what we need is a sustainable and renewable source, that has its entire process contained here in this country



our trash has the energy content we need - anything that makes starch can make alcohol - the infrastructure is already there, and would use exactly the same things as gasoline - the energy content is not that much lower - if we actually started doing it on the same scale as refining gasoline, the cost per gallon would actually go down, as there would be no costly extraction process or shipping cost - the environmental benefits of alcohol versus gasoline are boundless



as for the rest, we will never get anywhere as long as we allow the politicians to make the decisions the way they do - we need to take the money out of the equation - politicians should not be allowed to make money while in office, and lobbyists should not be allowed to meet with them privately
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply
#30

Flash,



Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've done a lot of research on the topic of alternative fuels, particularly ethanol, and it isn't anywhere near as easy as you describe. Would it be possible to convert from oil to cellulosic ethanol? Probably. But the complications and challenges - technological, economic, and logistical, are staggering. And then what would we have? Look at how the ethanol lobby has the politicians wrapped around their little finger today. I shudder to think of a world where these creeps dictated our energy policy. I think I'd rather have the Saudi princes. At least they understand that if they mess with us, it's curtains for them.



If I were elected king, the second thing I would do is start in a big way charging any country in which we have our troops stationed. If they refuse, bring 'em home, and best of luck fending for yourselves. The first thing I would do is eliminate the ethanol subsidy.



It amazes me how many good and interesting (if varied) ideas can spring forth from a little board dedicated to an obscure car, and yet in Washington, nothing ever seems to change. I totally agree with either a flat tax, or, preferably, a value added tax in place of an income tax. Simple, fair, and no need for the IRS. And I absolutely love the idea of all sitting members of congress being ineligible for re-election any year they don't balance the budget.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#31

i think you need to do more research and not read the propaganda that leans toward the corn industry for fuel - that is a dog that won't hunt, and fed by the farmers who want subsidies - it has really done a disservice to the public - we need to use our waste for fuel, not grow crops to make fuel



we already sort and pick up and distribute our trash - we need only to sort waste containing starch, and start making fuel from it - we produce enough waste to fuel every car in the country - we need only to gather it up



we already truck alcohol around and store it as it is - almost all fuels are now 10% alcohol, and E85 is 85% alcohol - how do you think we get that stuff around and store it?



it is an incredibly easy process - but, as long as we aren't using waste products as the source, we will be stuck with those who would profit from the process - as soon as we take the dollar out of the equation, we'll have the solution



the energy content is not a factor - the fuel will be so cheap, that it won't matter - so what if our engines make less power - they already make too much for the average user anyway - we really need to get back to some of the ideas that came about after the gas crunch in the 70s - we suddenly had smaller less powerful cars that were a lot more efficient - we need to do that again for the 90% of the public that just goes back and forth to work on average less than 25 miles each way



anything else is just arrogant and wasteful - we can no longer live in a world of self entitlement - those days are over
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply
#32

Ds968. 55
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#33

I wasn't referring to corn-based ethanol (although I see how my reference to the ethanol lobby may have been misleading); note that I referred to cellulosic ethanol, which is what producing ethanol from garbage is. The overarching problem with the process is one of concentration, and scale (or volume). To extract ethanol from substances with a relatively low sugar content like those found in garbage, you have to go through a complicated, expensive, and energy-intensive process of steam, acid, and/or enzyme addition. This cellulosic fermentation process yields a mash with an ethanol content of only about 5%, vs. the 15-20% from grain alcohol (higher if something like sugar beets are used), so you're stuck with inputting a lot of money and BTUs for a pretty meager end result. And then there's the problem of the enormous amount of material that needs to be transported and sifted through to extract the potential feed material. Plus, you have the same problems of massive water usage, and high volatile organic compounds (VOCs) and NOx emissions associated with the production of ethanol.



Yes, it's garbage, and therefore virtually infinite in terms of supply. And don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the idea of utilizing waste material to produce energy. But it has to be economically feasible for somebody to make it happen, and given the problems I cite above, it simply isn't. Not yet, anyway. I'm sure there are there are hordes of scientists working feverishly to find ways to improve the yield of cellulosically derive ethanol. I hope they succeed, because I completely agree with you that this would be a good thing. But given the critical need for additional sources of energy, wouldn't you expect that if it were feasible to do this, somebody would already be doing it? And I don't believe for a minute the nonsense that the big, bad oil companies are suppressing the work of plucky, hard-working, patriotic folks working on saving the world from evil oil. If there's money in it, the oil companies would be all over this.



And, human nature being what it is, I'm afraid that even if we were to one day derive ethanol from garbage on a large scale, we'd have a whole new set of "fat cats" in control of it, and we'd soon be accusing them of profiteering at the public's expense, price gouging, and all the rest.



And on top of all this, I keep coming back to the question of what will doing something like this get us. I agree that spending part of our military resources to defend many of the world's oil supplies sucks, but in the overall scheme of things, it's a drop in the bucket (sorry...). Our overall federal budget is something north of $3 trillion, of which defense represents about $700 billion. The deficit for this fiscal year is about $1.3 trillion. The defense budget as a share of the overall budget had been dropping steadily until 9/11, after which it has ratcheted back up, but still, even if you make a generous assumption that 20% of the military budget goes toward directly or indirectly defending oil supplies, eliminating this doesn't come close to making a dent in the deficit, which is the source of the recent panic and subsequent credit rating downgrade. And I don't understand how this has anything to do with the fiscal messes in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, and Ireland, which seem to be the flashpoint in the latest financial crisis.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#34

we ran a still for years that produced alcohol which we used to run all of the vehicles on the ranch - we only put waste product in there - we were making about 100 gallons a month, and it was a small ranch with only a few acres of crops



keep in mind that rotted or diseased crops, which are currently just hauled away or burned, are waste product - we produce enough of that every year alone to make enough high grade alcohol for vehicular use - we throw away nearly 40% of our food crop



it's not just defense budgeting for "normal" things - the iraq war alone has cost us 3 trillion of that 14 trillion - that doesn't even take into account the fallout cost - if we didn't have those interests to protect, we would not be in the spot we are in now - let's do a little quick math - 700 billion times the easily 20 years we have been screwing around with this, plus 3 trillion, and no end in sight - guess what? that's 17 trillion - that's without even factoring in any other wars or police actions, or whatever - even if you cut it in half, it's pretty easy to see where the majority of the costs are



at this point, the government could have absorbed the entire cost of producing the alcohol for our use, and been WAY ahead of the game, and we would have had free fuel the whole time
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply
#35

Obama has spent much more than the military has in the past 10 years. Only the strongest don't get attacked. 9-11 wasn't an attack by an organized military or country. Just a bunch of terrorists. While 3000 plus were brutally murdered it was a single act. Gutting the military isn't the answer. Making sure the money is well and properly spent is. We sit here pontificating on our fat well satisfied asses because of our military. Flash has cited some good points previously. Work and pay taxes. Put some skin in the game. Stop the class warfare bs. It isn't a solution and merely works as a red herring for those brainless boobs in DC who aren't able to think beyond cashing their paychecks.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#36

911 was a really a very minor incident, regardless of how it is perceived - i am frankly surprised that something like it didn't happen a lot sooner - we had it coming for a long time - it is only because it was the first time something like it happened to us that made it seem so huge - more than that die every year in skirmishes dealing with the same kinds of people - we just don't hear about it on the 11 o'clock news - we are incredibly vulnerable to such things, and the military won't be able to do anything about it overseas - to this day it is still incredibly easy to take over a plane - i could explain how, as could anybody who has ever been involved in security, but then i would have homeland security on my ass - i am stunned that they have not corrected it, though it would mean costs to the airlines, and less comfort for passengers - just another case of comfort over safety



if the military were all here protecting our borders, constantly flying guard, rather than pussyfooting around in some half assed attempt to control other countries, perhaps we could have shot the planes down before they hit - of course that would mean sacrificing the passengers, but in war, those are deemed acceptable losses, and we might need to start thinking like that



we have created our own mess by going halfway on everything - we bail out the banks, but don't prohibit golden umbrellas, so the money is lost - we have a "stimulus package" that ends up in governmental programs that do nothing to create new jobs, which is what is needed, and would increase the tax base while simultaneously decreasing the unemployment expense - we go overseas to protect our oil interests, but then don't really clean house, leaving things in a worse state than they were before we went, and now must support that for the foreseeable future



blaming it on obama is just plain wrong - i am not an obama fan, and he has certainly made enough mistakes, but bush got us into this mess - we had a surplus before him - now a ton of money is going to have to be spent to dig us out - that means more taxes AND less spending - more taxes and same spending won't do it - same taxes and less spending won't do it - less taxes and less spending certainly won't - we need to get used to the idea that times are different, and we all need to start living within our means



clearly i am taking the hard-assed approach here, but i am sick and tired of people blaming our situation on "the other guy" - it's our own fault, and we have nobody else to blame, because we all value our giant flat screen and our overpowered SUV above our security and future
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply
#37

I agree we all share blame. The creation of our middle class after the second world war created what we know as the way we live. That's because people worked, bought homes, educated their kids and all that we know as our way of life. Now too many receive gov't benefits, the dole, and expect others to provide. The pride of working and providing for yourself and your family has been severly diminished. Now someone else is and should do this for you. My grandparents scrimped and saved to put my dad and sister thru college and law school. They knew education was the way up and out to a better life. Work hard and get ahead. Now that work ethic is missing. The solution is thru the creation of jobs by small business and entrepreneurs. Always was always will be. The vilification of the creation and accumulation of wealth is detrimental to this country. Encourage people to create, to invest, to live their dreams. Now that's the American way. It works. It's well proven. Because it is 2011 doesn't mean it can't work today. Unlock the entrepenueral spirit of our legal immigrants and whoosh get out of the way.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#38

I agree that our debt malaise isn't Obama's fault, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as to blame it on Bush, either. The reason we have such a huge deficit has several causes, but the dominant one is our sluggish economy. We balanced the budget in the late 90's not because of some unprecedented spurt of fiscal responsibility, but because we had a roaring economy, brought on by a once-in-a-lifetime combination of a high tech revolution, a housing boom which enabled people to use their houses like ATM machines, and gas prices not seen in a generation. This all generated China-like levels of GDP growth that fueled a tax revenue machine. A lack of any serious conflicts, allowing for some significant cuts in defense spending, didn't hurt, either. When that all came to a screeching halt in 2008 (after a fair-to-middling decade of the 2000s which had what is in hindsight surprisingly small deficits, considering the recession of 2000-2001, 9/11, the Bush tax cuts, the Iraq war, the prescription drug benefit plan, and soaring gas prices), the revenue machine dried up, leaving us in a hole the size of the Mariana Trench.



So now, how do we get out of this? Seems that the legacies of both Drs. Keynes (deficit spending) and Friedman (tax cuts) are severely tied down by the size of the debt, and nobody has figured out how to replace the trillions of dollars that were pumped into the economy by the housing boom. But even if we were to somehow return to the boom times of the 90s, it's clear that this isn't sustainable, so I agree with Flash that we need to figure out how to cut spending, and raise revenues, to put us on a sane fiscal course. If the Republicans had half a brain among them, they should have agreed to all the tax increases on people earning over, say, $300K that the Democrats wanted, in exchange for much larger spending cuts. That would have calmed the markets, and avoided the recent credit downgrade.



But we citizens are also a big part of the problem. Everybody wants to see government spend less, but nobody can name specific areas that they'd like to see cut. So, as easy as it is to blame our political leaders, I'm afraid we need to look into the mirror while we're looking for who to blame.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#39

Agreed, I think we all want spending cuts that don't impact us personally! If you think that raising taxes on those making over $300 is a good idea, how about that 50 percent that pay no taxes? Pain or better yet fairness needs to be spread equally. As previously mentioned some numerous times, a flat tax with the elimination of many of the deductions we all enjoy is a start.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#40

yup - the blame game gets us nowhere - we all have exctly the government we deserve



by the way, i wasn't saying that the entire 14 trillion was bush's fault - obviously we had a large debt before that, but our annual budget was finally a surplus up until he got in office - then we started up overseas and built another 3 trillion from just that
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread / Author Replies Views Last Post
Last Post by ether_joe
10-23-2006, 01:33 PM

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)