[az968]

Agree, the car has to be at least sorted out as is. I was just trying to make the point that driver "skill and knowledge" is more important that a few mechanical improvement. Once one knows the basics of car handling and techniques, then start with the upgrades.

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[RS Barn]

Agreed. 

I've driven some poorly set up 968's that had been fiddled with . One was the President of a PCA Region. We improved his times a bunch.

BTW, Autocross is a really good way to learn car control. Fun too-except for the wait between runs.

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[williamoss]

Why would lowering the tire pressure for auto crossing be better than normal pressure? Obviously you get more rubber on the ground?

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[flash]

anything that can reduce the tendency to jump, bounce, or twitch is good in autocross.  firm tires, stiff springs, or gas shocks are a quick way to spend a lot of kinetic energy returning to stasis.  i cannot count the number of people who set cars up wrong for autocross, usually installing things used for street or track, and thinking they will be good for autocross.  without exception, i have proven, to those who have let me, that softer is better.  autocross is a very different animal.  speeds are low but weight transfer is high.  anything that can smooth out the weight transfer, but without creating understeer, is good

 

the problem is the rules.  if you are trying to be competitive, it usually costs you points to set the car up right, and a "factory" option package may result in higher times, but still win for you, due to the points penalties.

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[Peter B]

My wife and I got to autocross this weekend.  It was a crazy weekend.  I got back from Japan Thursday and started reading "Winning Autocross Solo II Competition" by Turner and Miles (1977).  The book is great.  I worked Friday and we flew Friday afternoon to San Jose to a VIP lunch with Tesla head designer Franz V.H. and a factory tour.  We got back in Sunday Morning, with a 45 min flight delay that screwed everything up.  We missed a few runs, but more importantly we missed a chance to scope out the course.  

 

The book rocks - it's short and concise.  For car set up, it agrees mostly with Flash's assessments.  One point was that for cars that tend to under-steer, the book recommends running with a higher pressure in the front tires.  Here's the update:

1) Issues are with the drivers, not the car (big surprise).  The techniques to keep the car from rolling and nose diving, from the book, work when I could execute them.  I'm sure if you have the PDK computer systems turned on, the PDK probably work better than I could now (really I'm not jealous).  

2) Advice to start at 38PSI was good.  I wound up with 38 front and 35.5 back.  Seemed pretty balanced for me.  I chalked the tires and got them all with the lines about 1/2 into the little triangles.  

3) We totally mis-read and important part of the course, but managed to finish closer, time-wise, to our main competition.  We've been finishing about 2.5 seconds back and we were about 2 seconds back.  I know if I had read the course right, I could have easily dropped 1 - 1.5 seconds.  I could see it in other peoples times.  The mentioned how they figured one section out and then dry dropped significant time (~ 1 - 2 seconds).

 

It was really hard to read the book and to be in San Jose where I could not practice.  Since then I'm really working on slow hands and left foot braking.  Hopefully I won't crash doing this.  I also got this gizmo that works with the standard belts to let you tighten down the lap belt - this is to hold you tight in the seat.   

 

Good advice from everyone.  Thanks.  

 

Interesting Tesla notes:  They can turn out proto-types from the design studio in 8 months, starting with just drawings.  We got to see the Model-3 prototype up close - nice looking car but not spectacular.  I do hope they make a performance AWD version of this car.   I'm about number 100K on this list.  I really don't want one from the first 6 months of shipments.  

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[flash]

i tend to add pressure up front too.  the tires don't get hot enough in autocross to justify lowering them on most cars.  of course, then you have to enter into the equation things like camber angles and even tire size mismatches, but as a rule, i would add 3-4lbs up front, to force the car to sit up a bit more up there, and resist roll and wobble

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[Peter B]

I'm looking at the SCCA street category for the 968:  Street B.  I was thinking of racing this weekend with the SCCA.  Someone in the SCCA is driving the 968 very fast - it's in good company.  

 

This is the same group as the Boxster-S (2005 - 2008), 2005 - 20012 Cayman, 2006 - 2008 Cayman-S,  and the 993 911's (non-turbo).  1989 944 Turbo-S is Street C (slower) along with the earlier standard boxsters (up to 2006).  The Earlier 944's are Street-D (even slower).  

 

Other Street B are:  Acura NSX (pre 2006 standard version), Focus RS, Audi RS4, RS5, RS6, S3 and S4 (2010- 2016), S5 and S6, Corvette C4 and C5 (non Z06), honda S2000 and mercedes SLK55 AMG 2005 - 2010.  Nissan 370Z, 

 

I am suddenly feeling like I'm really a very slow driver.   I love my 968, but I can't see this car being in the same category as a 2008 Cayman-S.    

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[Rap]

It timing and grip that count not speed.

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[flash]

autocross is more like surfing than anything else.  it's all about throttle control and weight transfer.  you just push through turns, maximizing the exits.  if you use the brakes, you probably made a mistake somewhere.  shifting the weight from outside to inside of a turn, and always staying on power, is the key to getting through the course the quickest.  a setup that facilitates that is helpful.  on most cars, this means softer springs than you might otherwise use, different tire pressures front to rear, sway bars in the rear, but maybe not in the front, and tires that flex, but don't go gushy.

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[94SilverCab]

autocross is more like surfing than anything else.  it's all about throttle control and weight transfer.  you just push through turns, maximizing the exits.  if you use the brakes, you probably made a mistake somewhere.  shifting the weight from outside to inside of a turn, and always staying on power, is the key to getting through the course the quickest.  a setup that facilitates that is helpful.  on most cars, this means softer springs than you might otherwise use, different tire pressures front to rear, sway bars in the rear, but maybe not in the front, and tires that flex, but don't go gushy.

 

Hey...Give me a call

 

Jay

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[Rap]

Missing CA. Already?

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[94SilverCab]

Yes, and we have some Forums business to finish up...

 

Flash, call or write...

 

Jay 

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[flash]

can't get to any business right now.  still awaiting arrival of my stuff.

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[94SilverCab]

PM sent

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[Rap]

What happened to the new fresh start? Throwing off the shackles of bourgeoisie capitalism and embracing the unrestricted joy of social egalitarianism must be overwhelming. How are you coping. Don't you miss the rat race? If I get away from the east coast for too long I simply twitch and jones.

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[flash]

come on guys - we are polluting this thread.

 

i'm fine.  just busy.  all pressing site issues are handled for now, so relax

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[Rap]

Hope all is going well!

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[Peter B]

Back to Autocross.  It's the end of the season.  Indeed, the problems have been the driver and not the car.   My wife and I are doing this together.  We keep getting closer to the really good drivers, but we see more and more how much we need to learn.  We also met a fellow 968 driver that is quite good - need to learn more from him!  Fun season.  

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[Peter B]

Autocross Season 2 starts for us officially next weekend.  We've taken 2 classes, 2 weekends in a row with excellent instructors, ridden with better drivers in their cars and with them driving our car.   We've learned a lot. 

 

Spreading 968 Love:  Last weekend at a training event in Bremerton, on an old airstrip (what fun!), my wife and I brought our driving up a notch.  Two 911 drivers kept on asking me about the 968.  They kept commenting on how great it looks and how fast it is (that hasn't happened before to us).  I did my best to show off the many cool features, the great looks and rarity.  Not bad comments from an experienced driver in a 1996 C2.  

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[Bulti]

Great to hear!

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