[Ninemeister]

As you will probably all know already, we quote the standard 9m supercharger kit power output as 350bhp on a standard engine but we regularly see 360-370bhp on a fresh motor. However following an inpromptu discussions with the supercharger manufacturer whilst we were displaying the car at Autosport International in January, he convinced us that running the blower faster would get us the right side of 400bhp. It seemed rude not to try it.....



The changes that we have had to make in comparison to the stock kit are:

1. change stock 6 rib to 7 rib poly-vee belt drive pulleys

2. larger injectors

3. Cat test pipe

4. Larger Air flow meter



Whilst still considered work in progress, the following results were seen on our dyno today, corrected to DIN standards:



Run 4 = 429.5bhp @ 7155rpm / 473Nm @ 5444rpm

Run 5 = 418.2bhp @ 6798rpm / 462Nm @ 5585rpm



Run 4 was with a hot engine with cold intercooler, run 5 immediately followed.



Methinks we better fit a new set of rods soon......

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[Lemming]

COOL <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[orphanowner]

While 400+ hp IS impressive, how about providing a dyno chart for the same car bone stock? That way we can see the net increase over stock.

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[Jason Judd]

I find the Torque numbers even more impressive!



Anything over 5,000 RPM has more than 500 lbs/ft of TQ?



Yow!



Jason

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[Ninemeister]

[quote name='orphanowner' date='Mar 22 2006, 06:30 PM']While 400+ hp IS impressive, how about providing a dyno chart for the same car bone stock? That way we can see the net increase over stock.

[right][post="17809"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



I do not have a copy of the 9m CS on our dyno with the new dyno hardware/software upgrade, but we do own a stock 968 Sport which has been lent to a customer whilst we supercharge his car. Once this is back in the workshop next week I could easily run another dyno pull and post a comparison with the Sport instead which actually made slightly more power than the CS did originally.



However I should mention that there are many standard 968 dyno curves available online, including ones that have been chipped, and any of these will suffice in a useful comparison, such is the gulf between standard and supercharged.

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[Ninemeister]

[quote name='Jason Judd' date='Mar 22 2006, 08:04 PM']I find the Torque numbers even more impressive!



Anything over 5,000 RPM has more than 500 lbs/ft of TQ?



Yow!



Jason

[right][post="17814"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





The power graph is at the top, the torque curve is on the bottom.



Peak torque is actually 473Nm, which equates to 350lbft. Not quite 500lbft but still impressive compared to standard.

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[orphanowner]

[quote name='Ninemeister' date='Mar 22 2006, 04:20 PM']I do not have a copy of the 9m CS on our dyno with the new dyno hardware/software upgrade, but we do own a stock 968 Sport which has been lent to a customer whilst we supercharge his car. Once this is back in the workshop next week I could easily run another dyno pull and post a comparison with the Sport instead which actually made slightly more power than the CS did originally.



However I should mention that there are many standard 968 dyno curves available online, including ones that have been chipped, and any of these will suffice in a useful comparison, such is the gulf between standard and supercharged.

[right][post="17825"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Ideally I was looking a base run on the same car, same dyno type of thing. It's compelling evidence when you can see the increase on the same car, same dyno. I just read Jason's post regarding the almost 500 lbft torque number and had to review the dyno chart to see we are talking Nm which is roughly 2/3 the sae measure. Impressive just the same.

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[Graham]

Colin,



Any chance of posting pics of the car/ engine bay etc?



It looks pretty cool in the Ninemeister livery



Is it Mark's CS or does he have one as well?



Graham

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[Ninemeister]

[quote name='Graham' date='Mar 23 2006, 09:06 AM']Colin,



Any chance of posting pics of the car/ engine bay etc?



It looks pretty cool in the Ninemeister livery



Is it Mark's CS or does he have one as well?



Graham

[right][post="17860"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Engine bay pic attached.



Well, although Marc drives it a lot whilst I am peddling my 993RSR, technically it belongs to both of us!

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[Graham]

Wow.



I may as well give up now.



I think I may pick my calipers up in person if possible and maybe have a look at it if thats ok.



It's brilliant to see a UK company showing an interest in the 968 and building such a car - and then actually sprinting it on track.



Graham

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[Ninemeister]

[quote name='Graham' date='Mar 24 2006, 01:54 PM']Wow.



I may as well give up now.



I think I may pick my calipers up in person if possible and maybe have a look at it if thats ok.



It's brilliant to see a UK company showing an interest in the 968 and building such a car - and then actually sprinting it on track.



Graham

[right][post="17931"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Calipers were in colour the last time I looked in the bodyshop, so we'll look forward to seeing you in person .... and anyone else for that matter who wants to have a closer look at the car.... and thanks for the thumbs up!

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[FraMac]

Hoping this helps rather than hinders, 9M supercharged my '68 at the back end of 2005 - this was prior to the latest work they have done achieving 400+ brake.



In the style of the grecian 2000 telly ads from the 80's, here are the before and after dyno readings.







Happy to provide any further info if required.



atb



Fraser.



ps - Colin - thanks for the clatter in the RSR - gripping

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[Ninemeister]

Thanks Fraser, the post of your runs should answer orphanowner's question.



Unfortunately I do not have records of prior runs as our dyno could only store 10 runs and they were wiped after the cars left the shop. This situation is now resolved with the purchase of our new dyno control hardware/software, but that does not help until we do another conversion.



Just to clarify the power outputs recorded on those runs, you will notice that I have written correction factors on top of the graphs. This is because the old package did not record ambient pressure and temperature, so we measured them externally and calculated the cf.



The actual numbers recorded are:



before

249bhp at flywheel, 213bhp at wheels uncorrected

237bhp at flywheel, 202bhp at wheels corrected



after

376bhp flywheel, 309bhp wheels uncorrected

361bhp flywheel, 297bhp wheels corrected



I hopes this helps to clarify the reading of these original Bosch dyno graphs.

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[Bruckner]

Nice! Ninemeister, why is your graph not showing power output below 3500rpm? It's half the rev range missing, sane people do most of their street driving there. Performance on top is fantastic but I think a complete graph would be useful!



Regards,

Bruckner

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[Ninemeister]

[quote name='Bruckner' date='Mar 27 2006, 03:32 AM']Nice! Ninemeister, why is your graph not showing power output below 3500rpm? It's half the rev range missing, sane people do most of their street driving there. Performance on top is fantastic but I think a complete graph would be useful!



Regards,

Bruckner

[right][post="18063"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





I just chopped off the bottom 1000rpm to make the graph clearer, but you are lucky because I actually hit full throttle on the dyno at 2300, so here is the missing bottom 1000, just for you!

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[Rude944]

What kind of boost is this 400 number at? What kind of boost were you running before the large injectors and other changes?



Is this with stock compression ratio? Utilizing the stock knock sensors/or perhaps stock ignition timing?



I have all sorts of questions!!! This is quite intriguing.



Cheers!

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[Ninemeister]

[quote name='Rude944' date='Mar 27 2006, 07:27 PM']What kind of boost is this 400 number at? What kind of boost were you running before the large injectors and other changes?



Is this with stock compression ratio? Utilizing the stock knock sensors/or perhaps stock ignition timing?



I have all sorts of questions!!! This is quite intriguing.



Cheers!

[right][post="18085"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





The 9m supercharger is a centrifugal "turbo" style device that has varying boost depending on the input shaft speed. The standard 360bhp kit runs with up to 7psi at 7000rpm, with approximately 4.5psi at 5000 and 2psi at 3000; our development engine sees just over 10psi at 7000 to make around 420bhp.



Both conversions run stock compression, afm & fuel pressure, but of course we run with larger injectors with a full fuel/ignition remap on the dyno. Because the supercharger is a fixed drive ratio we do not need to run with MAP compensation because the boost is roughly constant for any given rpm. The functionality of the stock knock system is maintained, but nether engine runs anywhere near to the detonation point.



Interestingly we exhibited our 968 at the Autosport International Show at the NEC at Birmingham in January, at which we had a visitor to the stand who had been part of the 968 development team at Porsche. His comments were that the team had designed the engine with high compression/low boost in mind, hence why the heads has such large intake ports, but because the results were spectacular Porsche had to cap the project for fear that the 968 would outperform the 911 and damage sales, so a hasty redesign took place which resulted in the production 968 engine that we now know. To say that he was excited by our results was an understatement.

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[Graham]

Colin,



Very interesting statement at the end.



Another well known specialist in the UK told me that it was obvious that the engine was ripe for boost and that this was the best way to go for tuning.



By the way....



You need to change your signature at the bottom of your postings from 400bhp to 429bhp Supercharged 968 CS



'Or are you afraid that it will overshadow your RS CS!' ;-)



Graham



P.S



How do the two compare on track times and in general, I assume that they are completely diffferant to drive?



I have only ever driven two 911's one was a 964 carrera 4 and the other a white SC with a 964 RS engine built by yourself I believe, both were a completely differant experience to my 68 but with comparable power.

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[Ninemeister]

[quote name='Graham' date='Mar 28 2006, 09:35 AM']You need to change your signature at the bottom of your postings from 400bhp to 429bhp Supercharged 968 CS



'Or are you afraid that it will overshadow your RS CS!' ;-)



Graham



P.S. How do the two compare on track times and in general, I assume that they are completely diffferant to drive?[/quote]



We could change the signature, but in fairness to everyone the engine made three runs on the dyno and the average was 420, so maybe this should be the new number.



As for overshadowing my 993RS CS, it is remarkable how similar the power curves are, but the bad news for the 968CS is that my engine recently posted a best of 432bhp and average of 428bhp (that's n/a or all-motor for the record), so it is still top dog by a gnat's whisker, as seen on this dyno comparason of the best two runs. Still shocks me that a £7k supercharger package on a stock 968 engine can more or less match a £25k 3.82 litre 993 race engine - thank goodness that the 968 does not have traction control!



Driving the two cars is chalk and cheese, the 993 is really a 1170kg racer with monster brakes and decent suspension, whereas the 968 is around 1370kg on good brakes (for the weight) and better suspension. All I can tell you is that the 968 can carry more speed into a bend whereas the 993 has the traction out of it, but both lunch the GT3 on track (mk1 or mk2, standard and modified).

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[Graham]

Wow, the 993 sounds very special.



Are you going to continue to develop the 968 to go for more power or leave it at that?



It seems more than ample but it would be interesting to see how far you could go with it.



Also, 7k is an absolute bargain for such performance.



If I hadn't spent all my budget on the chassis and brakes I could have gone for it. But, I would have ended up with a saggy old car with too much power for it to handle



I think I have made the right decision to leave the engine till last.



One day though.



Graham

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