[flash]

lol - doesn't surprise me - lamborghini started out doing trucks

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[rxter]

Interesting discussion. As it happens I was planning to spend a few today thinking about my next 968 moves. I'm at a point where to make any real gains in enjoyment/performance I need to start spending real money. The easy and obvious stuff is done. On the list are:

Full suspension redo
Top end refresh
Motor mounts, rod bearings (while you're in there...), pan gasket

$7K gone

Then to the mods and interior
Cab brace (done), stutgart block, D1 short shifter
Full carpet, dash and some trim work

Another $3K

And I'm at the magic "Best used car for $30K" concept that Bob put forth a while back. So, assuming that I could sell the car within the Excellence range (a big if with today's employment and credit challenges to be sure) and taking my $10K cash I am wondering do I really have the best car for the money? I know, blashphemy, but alas a boy's eyes wander from time to time.

The way I plan to know is to test drive every $20K manual convertible sports car under 60K miles I can get my hands on. A quick search on autotrader turns up the following.


05 Audit TT
03-04 BMW 325/330
00 Vette
04-07 S2000
08 MX5
04-06 350Z
01-04 Boxter S

along with some other stuff that is not really a sports car (mustangs, minis, soltice)

What do you all think my chances are of finding something on that list that is as fun to drive as the 968?

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[Ryan]

Just noticed that the Porsche tractor is using VW front wheels. I think Lambo started with tractors not trucks.

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[flash]

rxter, having owned an E46 325 ragtop and now the M3 ragtop, i can tell you that you won't be happy with the switch - while nice cars in their own right, they just aren't the 968

the tt is all but useless

the miata will leave you feeling limp - it just lacks the power to exhilarate

the vette is a brutish car, and while all that power can be fun for a while, the way it manages it gets old quickly - i think chevy chose correctly with their "heartbeat of america" slogan - overweight, out of shape, easily tired - more pump than jump

the 350z is an interesting car, but again underpowered, and it drives like an altima

that leaves the S2000 and the boxster - both are fun cars to drive, but there are plenty of people here who can attest to how they are not quite the car the 968 is

i went through exactly this same scenario before i bought the blue car - i wanted a 2 seat ragtop, wanted it to be rear drive, preferred front engine, with AC, manual trans, and had to be able to carry 2 sets of golf clubs, 2 cases of wine, a weekend of luggage, and my wife - no maker was excluded - budget was about $35k

still, i bought the 968

to this day, i could switch if i wanted - my budget more than doubled - i have the same requirements though - still i have the 968

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[94SilverCab]

Interesting analysis,

I like the Z Car, but would wait a couple of years and go for the G37S Convertible. The 968 probably won't depreciate that much more, and may even begin to appreciate.

Of your list

05 Audit TT (Fugly)
03-04 BMW 325/330 (Shrug on styling and very common)
00 Vette (Very Common and don't want to be That Guy)
04-07 S2000 (I like this very much, it would be in the running for me)
08 MX5 (underpowered, more of a tinker toy. On the other hands lots of cheap mods.)
04-06 350Z (See above)
01-04 Boxter S (NO, NOT, NEVER !!!)

Regards,

Jay

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[PorscheDude]

Flash I like the heartbeat of America anology. Very funny.

IMHO, the pricing trend is gonna go down for a few more years.
A few years ago, guys were saying the 951 market bottomed out, prices have dropped another $1500 or so in the last 2 years.
As usual, low mileage, clean, original cars are holding.

I think the best way to get a return on ones "investment" in the 968 is to drive it as much as possible.
I put 48k miles on mine in 3 1/2 years. Loved every minute of it.
I feel bad for those guys that paid $20k for their 968 a few years ago and only put a few thousand miles on it.
Seems a big waste of money.

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[Fox944]

Pat..you can call me that guy.

I purchased my 968 on October of 2005. I think i've logged about 11-12K miles on it since. Paid 16K iirc. But i don't use it as a DD. More of a weekend toy.

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[968Syncro]

Joe, I didn't see mid-911s on your list. If you are going to spend $15-20, you should study and take a few months to find a low mileage 911 Carrera (84-89), especially 87-89. These are excellent high quality cars, still around with under 100K miles in that price range, and quite bullet proof (coupe, cab, targa choices). Or the SC, my 911SC was a daily driver I took from 150K to 295K miles over 11 years without any real engine work, was the per-year least expensive car I ever owned. They have some real disadvantages over the 968, but if it sparks your interest I'd add that to the list.

Roland

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[flash]

lol - without counting fuel or anything like that, and factoring in only purchase and successful mods, i think i have paid about $2.70 per mile for the duration of my ownership

i could have been driven around in a cab everywhere for less, but what would be the point?

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[PorscheDude]

Dino = "That Guy". LOL

A modified 968 is not great DD for Manhatten....
So I don't feel bad for you.

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[Scott Collins]

"A modified 968 is not great DD for Manhatten...."

Pat, you are a master of the understatement!

So true! After a few trips to and through NYC, including one with a double bass in the back(that's en entirely other story), packed with marching band raincoats so it would not bang around back there, I can second that. NYC and the roads and bridges leading in and out has so many holes, seams, gaps, etc., that I thought I might completely shake apart! For the next trip, I'll be taking NJ Transit.

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[PorscheDude]

Yea, I hear ya!
I drove my 968 in manhatten a few times. Very nerve racking and the kidneys take a beating.

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[rxter]

Good replies.

Roland I excluded anything older than 1993. I don't really want to go back in time any further since time is the enemy to the upkeep. FWIW I drove a friend's 964 and found it to be a brutish car. I posted on it separately. A fine automobile for its purpose but I am generally happier with something a bit more refined - more of a GT guy I guess.

Flash FWIW I have basically the same opinion as yours here. Everything on that list I've driven or rode in at least one example at least once except the TT and the 350Z.

04 Z - Sat in one once when I decided to buy my current DD - did not like the driving position - felt like a Vette interestingly.
TT - is just looks goofy in my eyes. Like a boiled egg gone bad or something.

Oh and I missed the 2G BMW Z4 - I have no clue about that car. Drove thh first gen and tossed it around like a salad. Underpowered punching bag was the impression.

I really liked both the Boxter and the S2000. The Boxter S with low mileage is starting to look pretty appetizing (prices are dropping like everything else) as that is a completely capable car (I don't golf or drink wine [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img].

Maybe I need that for the DD and keep the 968 as the weekender. Oh, that did not solve my problem did it....

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[flash]

my next door neighbor has a 350Z ragtop - maybe we can convince him to let you drive it

tt - yeah - i can't figure out if it's coming or going

as i said though, given that i could have any of those, or a number of others, and could spend a lot more money to get there if i needed to, i would still choose the 968 - none of the others has all the features of the 968, and certainly none of them have the exclusivity

i think perhaps you are suffering from the pains of trying to bring the car up to snuff, and feeling like it's going to be a never ending battle - these cars are really pretty darned reliable ONCE you get them up to snuff - unfortunately most owners let them degrade, not aware of how bad an idea that really is,and then there is a large bill to contend with to get it back to condition

it's pretty common to think like that - i've done it myself

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[Johannvb]

+1

I have nearly given up on my car a few times over the past two years, now that it is sorted I am very happy with it.

The TT is a fun car, I nearly bought one 7 years ago but it lacked power. It handles very well though. The reason I did not buy it is because with the top up it had too many blind spots and it felt very cramped.

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[stevekat]

The Miata is higher on my list. I have a 10 Anniv. Edition that maybe someday I upgrade to a Mazdaspeed. Also a 1994 R edition. But also a 931 with GT intercooler, 968 M030, 996 40th, E34 M5 Touring, E24 M6 U.S. and some others. The Miata 10th Anniv. is the most fun to drive for me, hands down and its gets 70% of my use. Without considering the 968, next most fun to drive...the 931 #2. 996 #3, M5 Touring #4. Realize different drivers have different standards, and that my locale may effect the rating. Next in the fleet may be a Sonett.

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[PorscheDude]

I just saw an old Saab Sonnet in the junkyard. Poor little thing.

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[flash]

wow - we have REALLY gotten off track here

let's get back to the market value of the 968

one thing i think is holding back the market value of the car is the fact that so many of them are let run down into a condition not unlike the 944 that you would find for sale today - while certainly there are a few shining examples, nearly all of them are being sold when they need a LOT of maintenance, much of which the owner might not even be aware

as an example, how many have changed their rubber brake lines? every car out there is on borrowed time on the brake lines and seals, as they are ALL almost twice past their manufacturer specified life expectancy - you can't inspect them visually, as they fail from the inside, and until one of them really looks bad or blows, almost nobody thinks about it

how about the fuel filter? those are rated for a maximum life of 60k miles

how about the O2 sensor? - same rating

this is just the simple stuff - there is plenty more that is more complicated, that the average owner, who has only the owner's manual or his local dealer or shop on which to base the maintenance, would not know to do

of course, as stated above, if they were up to snuff, they might not be for sale in the first place, so i'm not sure where that leaves us

that's also why this site is here though, and why it is set up in an encyclopedic manner, and not just a random heap of piled up rehashed "oh, your car looks pretty" threads

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[stevekat]

It is not comparative value, that's for sure, at least from a performance standpoint. A 1999 996 for $20K vs. a 1974 Carrera for $40K - $50K is faster, handles better, is more reliable and doesn't rust. However, there are fewer 1974 Carreras. So the fact other cars perform better than a 968 is not a definitive measure.

Helping value is when the nostalgia factor kicks in since potential owners that had one or wanted one as kids get older and on average have greater resources to acquire one. Most collectible cars today do in fact decline in value from when new, before they start appreciating. I believe one has greater potential for price appreciation if production was in the 10's, 50, a couple of hundred...anything greater than that, makes big moves difficult. Eventually prices can move, but often that is accompanied by a decline in supply - rust, accidents, dismantling, etc.

Having the definitive model in a line is also helpful. Is the 968 the definitive model in the line or is the 944 Turbo? (Not counting special sub-offerings such as M030, Turbo S, etc.) By the way, even though M030 is not a model, it can have an equivalent value bump that a model might offer. ie: 944 Turbo S.

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[redbaron]

Steve,

I agree with your analysis, it will be some time before my 968 Coupe will catch up with the value of my 1957 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe. I think it will happen, not sure I will be around to see it - lol!

One other factor might be rare colors - like your Wimbledon Green. I have only seen one other one at the Herhey 968 Celebration, owned by Mike from New Jersey.

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