[flash]

i'm watching this one too - i am itching to get into this project, but have continually stumbled over the legal issues - i have found my way through it, but it won't be cheap



yes, you have to drop the trans to do the TT



actually, the car is somewhat set up for an intercooler in front of the condenser - the brackets are already in there (at least on mine) - plumbing required though



but then there are still the same emissions issues of putting an older engine into a newer car........

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[josephsc]

There is certainly a difference between "legal in CA" and "able to get by in CA". My car should also be sent to a referee, but no smog shop has yet to question it since I don't have any shiny parts that look out-of-place. Shawn may have been just as lucky. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



For dropping in a 944 turbo into a 968, the biggest hurdle might be making that custom intercooler/air intake look like they came from the factory. Some dirty grease in thrown in the right spot might do the trick....

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[flash]

yeah - been there done that - played the game - got lucky - lol - i'm guessing my luck is running out soon though



given what the fines to the shops are for the violations they aren't generally inclined to risk it - i've been turned away just because they don't know the car - took me a while to find a shop around here that would even look at the car



also, given that cars are now being impounded for illegal gear (a response to the street racing problem), being forced to have it removed at full boat expense, and the fines involved for that violation, i am not inclined to risk it myself - if i got nailed for a turbo, i estimate the end expense being at least $5k before i got the car back - i've heard of a LOT worse - on top of that, they have the car for quite a while as you sort it all out



not a pleasant idea - better to get it approved, hassle, cost and all

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[Bruckner]

As far as I can tell, required parts would be (please add to list):



951 motor, flywheel, bellhousing and TT

Custom made exhaust

Custom made intercooler (unless a shop who's already designed one could fabricate a few)

Custom plumbing

If wet turbo used, water connection



Going standalone would simplify things but would add to cost.



Overall I suspect this is a 15K$ job done properly with low mileage or rebuilt 951 motor and go fast goodies; a used 968 motor usually gets 3 grand. Nothing simple in life, but could be a great way to get +300 reliable rear wheel, Porsche horsepower. I doubt an equally well built 3.0L turbo engine will be under 30K installed and there are only few mechanics who've accumulated the knowledge and experience to make these engines. The 2.5L swap could be attempted by advanced home mechanics (anyone who's owned and worked on a 951 is by definition a qualified, patient, good natured home mechanic!).



Of course a fully overhauled/stiffer suspension and larger brakes should be done before starting this kind of project.



Regards,

Bruckner

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[JarmoL]

Hi,



Stock 968 gearing is a bit short for a 350+ hp turbo engine. I have a 951S box with S2 fifth gear set in my car. S2 fifth gives you about 200 rpm's worth more top speed compared to a stock 951S box. Great for highway cruising and fuel economy also.



Jarmo

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[xrad]

OK: So I am back on track for the turbo conversion of my 968. After investigating the options, I feel the best way is to use a 951 turbo engine , clutch, and torque tube, and bellhousing. There are several reasons.



1) Cost. I have two quotes for just a 944 engine rebuild and swap to 968, plus some extras 35,000$..Ha, good one there

2) I can buy a good 951 for less than 10,000$...get almost all the parts, and buy the upgrade parts, and do the swap myself

3) I could buy just the necessary components and do the swap myself for less than 5000-7000$

4) there is a huge aftermarket of parts for the 951 turbo, there are almost no aftermarket parts for 3.0 turbo(too much uncharted territory)

5) I could buy a 944 turbo stage whatever engine all done ready to go for 12,000$



So I am defiinitely going with the 951 2.5 engine. I will probably use lindsey racing for all the parts. I figure I will do the work myself because not too many want to do it, the price, and I don't really trust anyone else anyway.



Now the only choice is to buy a whole car, or an engine/tube/crossmember/exhaust in pieces...



I think I will start looking for a good turbo engine to buy and go from there.... still no rush

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[PorscheDude]

X,

I will give you a ring tonight. I have some leads and parts I do not need.

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[flash]

given how huge a project this is, and the expense involved, before steeping into a big pile of goo, i would do some serious homework on the emissions laws in your state, how they are changing, and what the likelihood is on getting caught up in a nightmare



as an example, we cannot legally go backward in years with an engine swap - we can only go forward - they blow that one out of the water here before they even think about sticking the sniffer in the tailpipe

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[xrad]

you would be amazed how well a Haltech system can run an engine with the 'proper' emissions tune....as for the appearance/engine dates....



a huge project...not anymore involved than some of my other enging swaps/rebuilds...plus it is fun to build these things...





Thanks Smokie. I have a Chicago trip today though Sunday. I'll call you Sunday night when I get home.

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[PorscheDude]

That works.

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[flash]

yeah - it's just a lot of work, and i would do the homeowrk first - it's likely not any more involved than any other (electronics, driveline, bell housing, and transaxle issues notwithstanding), but even those are enough for me to spend some time doing some research



i would just check into your state's laws regarding engine swaps, and specifically what they will be when you complete the job - out here they check the numbers - an engine earlier than the car is strictly forbidden - any engine swap, other than the same engine, requires a rather painful inspection process, and a lot of paperwork

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[94SilverCab]

Not every state is like the People's Republic of Cal-i-for-nia...



In Pennsylvania, as long as I drive less than 5,000 miles per year I could have a blown Hemi in my 968...



Jay

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[flash]

agreed - this year - not sure how that is going to play out over the next couple of years yet though - as air quality levels change, so do the requirements imposed by the federal government when it comes to testing, enforcement, and standards - not sure how much of the modification and swapping gets grandfathered in



my point was just to look into it before dumping a lot of time an money into the project

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[PorscheDude]

Put historic tags on it. No testing.

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[flash]

not old enough



hey - if i put historic tags on me, can i avoid testing? that would come in very handy the next time i am out on the town

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[Duckman]

The emmissions testing and annual inspections are interesting questions. In North Carolina, the state stopped testing emmissions on OBD1 and older cars. It was too big of a hassle to keep the testing equipment running. They still test OBD2 cars.



OBD1 and older cars only have to pass a safety inspection. However, that inspection includes alterations to the emmissions system, exhaust, etc.



So, at least in NC, if an OBD1 or older car "appears" as if the exhaust and emmissions systems are original, and you pass the other standard safety inspection items, such as lights and horns and stuff, you're good to go.

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[xrad]

thanks Flash. I will look into this....



But they do no inspections here of anykind...



maybe they will in the future...if that is the case, probably something like Duckman states....

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