[xrad]

Racing 968 with claimed 340hp. 3.0 without variocam? , ITB's, stand alone ECU, timing ,cams, stock headers, fuel, increased compression...What else?? HArd to tell from pics. I did not know there was this much to be gained without supercharger or turbo. If there is this much to be had, I want to make the conversion WITHOUT the turbo or compressor!



http://www.968turbo.de/968rmc.html

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[Mark]

I don't think I've heard from Konstantin since 968.net went belly up. He knows a ton about turbos but I never really thought of him as a NA tuner.

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[Renalicious]

I think an engine like that would definitely be a full blown race engine, something that gets rebuilt every season or more. Probably not too good on gas though, one of the reasons that makes me think twice about boreing mine out and putting on all the mods: I won't be getting 400miles to the tank on long trips <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Ryan]

That engine would not be too good on the street. I bet the power is all up high on the rev band. It is after all a race car.

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[flash]

i'd like to see charts on that

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[xrad]

I would still like to know some of the tricks he used...

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[flash]

my point was that i am pretty sure that it doesn't do what he claims - that ad has been up there for a LONG time



as for tricks, dump the variocam, open up the intake, add itbs, bore it out to 3.2, add high revving cams etc, bump the compression to about 12:1 - that should get you there - power band would be 5k to 8k - nothing below 4k

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[xrad]

Flash: Ic an do the head work, ITB's, cams, etc...



tell me more about ditching the variocam...use same head?

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[flash]

many changes involved - first thing to do is park at least 20 grand for the work and parts - but, that's the cost of any decent engine giving you over 140% of stock in NA form



as for doing the head work yourself, there is a real art to doing these heads - it seems that the "normal" things don't work as well as one might think - in any case, a flow bench is required - if you have one, then you might be able to do it, though it will probably take 2 or 3 heads before you get close to the right flow and chamber shape - it's not like it's a chevy head with patterns out there to work with



boring will be necessary - not a lot of data out there on this process, but a good 20 hp is to be had with it at 12:1, so not a step to be skipped



cooling supplements will also likely be necessary as a result of the boring



an entirely new balance arrangement will need to be worked out - probably deletion of the balance shafts, a light flywheel, and an entirely new crank counterbalance layout



sounds like fun, but a LOT of money

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[Lord_Galva]

What is ITB?

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[94SilverCab]

Individual Throttle Body

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[xrad]

By 'doing the work myself' I mean working with a Ford racing guy in his machine shop. He has a super accurate flow bench and all CAM machinery. did my last set of V6 Alfa heads with him including seats, shims, guides, porting, polishing, milling, dual spring compression rates, racing cams, and assembly. Obviously, this lowers cost significantly.



I was just wondering if there were any truely proven techniques that you guys have used in the past to enhance power. I will look into the over bore and stroking like you suggest Flash. Seems that without the turbo route, it will be many little things (which I would do anyway for the turbo).



My other thought was to get a 951 engine and really work it. Then I would have the original as a spare. I don't want the 944 clutch hassle.



Does anyone know what needs to be done to eliminate the variocam, but keep the 3.0 variocam head?



Does anyone know if the 951 (2.5 turbo) engine mates to the 968 clutch housing and if things line up appropriately?

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[PorscheDude]

[quote name='xrad' post='55193' date='Jun 22 2008, 04:55 PM']Does anyone know what needs to be done to eliminate the variocam, but keep the 3.0 variocam head?[/quote]

S2 Head



[quote name='xrad' post='55193' date='Jun 22 2008, 04:55 PM']Does anyone know if the 951 (2.5 turbo) engine mates to the 968 clutch housing and if things line up appropriately?[/quote]

In a nut shell, the 951 uses a different crank trigger so you would need to use the 951 bell housing, clutch, flywheel, torque tube and DME with wiring harness.

It is actully pretty straight forward if you buy a wrecked 951.



There are many ways to get the 968 pressurized, none of which is very cheap. A 951 engine swap IMHO, would be the cheapest way (providing you don not have to rebuild the engine).

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[flash]

yeah - if you have the setup, you can reduce out of pocket cost, but frankly the machining is the least expensive part of the process - even that has its complications though - the problem is going to be the lack of a pattern on which to model the chambers - you will likely have to go through a couple of heads before you get an optimal setup



by the way, i was not suggesting stroking - just a bore - i don't think there is room for stroking



the ITB system, and the controls for it and the ignition is going to be the real challenge



there is somebody who has gotten big numbers out of an NA, and they went through a LOT of time and money working it out - they also will not share their info - lol - they will build you an engine though



best of luck



i myself plan to bore to 3.2, and do some head work, but i only expect to see about 300hp in NA form - it would be reasonably streetable though

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[xrad]

THANKS guys!



951/944 turbo the way to go. Many Many parts and engines and aftermarket stuff out there. Don;t worry, I won't crap up the forum with 944 stuff..hahahah



If the only thing I have to worry about is the crank trigger for the exchange, it is not a concern (i think) as I will use a Haltech for fuel /timing mgmt(and haltech is so well designed, it can be timed from a baseball card hitting spokes!!).



I just want to keep the 968 bell housing for ease of clutch changes. do you know if 944 engine and 968 bell housing bolt directly together?

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[FRporscheman]

Konstantin visits RL. 340 hp NA would take a disgusting amount of work.

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