[flash]

It's time to poke around and see what the real interest is on a project I have been considering.



I have been working on putting together a centifugal turbocharger package for this car. This is also commonly called a centrifugal supercharger. It would be similar to the McCollough / Paxton/ Vortek unit.



Yes, you would get to keep your air conditioning. No features or functions would be lost.



The package would consist of all parts necessary to bolt it on, the unit itself and software for a stock to blower application (it would not take into account any mods already done or done later - that would need different software). No intercooler would be required. Boost would be down around 4.5 PSI and run on 91 octane. This alleviates intecooler needs, and wear and tear issues. This would be a bolt on application that could be done by any competent shadetree mechanic in a weekend.



Since all states are going to be going through the same kinds of regulations as California very soon, we have no intention of pursuing this if we cannot get C.A.R.B. certfication. This has been the single biggest factor in my decision process. If this can't be done, my last hope is that Pete's upcoming cam setup passes emissions tests. His stuff would pass visual, but the tailpipe test could be the killer. So, I am looking at options now.



The unit itself already has a certficate of compliance, but the application would need to be extended to include the 968. What this means is that we would have to purchase another car, set it up, and deliver it to the C.A.R.B. for 90 days. This is a very significant cost and time commitment. Between the development, and the patent process, I am looking at having to cough up about 25k to make this happen.



I don't really have a problem doing this just for myself, but if i ever plan to repeat it, I have to go in with that intention ahead of time. The fabrication process for a one-off is entirely different than for "production". There is no going back for me. If I end up just doing it for myself, I will never be pulling it apart to set it up for replication.



What I need to know, before we proceed, is how many people would really be prepared to plunk down 5k if they knew they could get 270 or so smog legal horsepower at the wheels. No dreamers, no wannabes, but people with disposable cash ready and willing to spend it.



I do not want to get into a long "how are you going to do it?" or "what are you using" kind of thread. I am not looking to start any kind of discussions on the merits, theories, or experiences of others related to this project. I am not looking to answer a bunch of detailed questions, so please don't ask. This is purely to query the interest level.

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[ds968]

First in line.



Disclaimers: 1) provided there's no effect whatsoever on the A/C, or cooling effect ( if the engine runs a lot hotter and the cold air in the cabin is even one or two degrees warmer than it is now.. 2) the new sofware ( assuming you're talking simply the DME chip ) must work with a modified catback exhaust without having to be re-engineered.



If 1 and 2 are not an issue - I'm in.

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[insite94]

Bob -



I'll be in need of at least a top-end rebuild within the next 12 months, along with possible rings and precautionary replacement of crank bearings no matter what. Part of the rebuild would include Pete's header and catback.



Point being, no sense in huffing-up a tired motor, so I'm in line for 12 mos from now.



Other than that, I'll be in line behind Dan - no AC loss, usable with aftermarket exhaust. and true bolt-on, bolt-off usability.

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[flash]

no worries - exhaust would not be an issue - mods like head work, cams, and such would be where it would get dicey - i won't give up ANY function or driveability, including but not limited to the AC, cooling, etc - so not to worry there either

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[ds968]

just moved $5 k from my Swiss accounts, trough the off shore ( Bermuda ) captive, into my mattress at home.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



as soon as Bob installs his, runs it for a month and absent any reports of

a 968 exploding or a car-B-Q in SoCal, my order will be in <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

well, there will be a bbq celebrating the conclusion of the project for sure



just ot be clear though, this is a pretty long and involved project, so don't anybody get too excited just yet - to go into production mode, it will take at least 10 people firmly commited to justify the tooling costs - the project itself will take 2 months to put together and another 3 to sit at CARB - i am booked up until late june before i can even get onto this, so we are realistically looking at every bit of the first of 2007 before this could be ready

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[chris]

I know you don't want to turn it into one of "those" threads....but honestly, how can ppl be expected to plop $5k with zero information?

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[flash]

i didn't ask them to - i asked how many people, who had that kind of cash, would be seriously interested



i was pretty clear on what it was and what it would do - the presumption that there would be no issues and complications is a given, otherwise i won't proceed - i won't be selling anything half ass - so, at this time, there should really be no questions, and since the package does not yet exist, i really can't answer any of them anyway



this is not going to be a "budget" thing, or have a group buy to reduce cost, or any chance of anybody cutting corners or doing an end run around the process, which is going to cost me a fair bit - i will have the patent pending on it before i disclose any specifics



there will also only likely be one run of packages, designed to cover my costs only - i am really not interested in going into a long term business selling these - once my first run is completed, i will sell the license to another company - they will then likely be significantly raising the price by the amount they would profit



i am not making any accusations, but what i am avoiding in this thread are lookie loos, tire kickers, and window shoppers (as well as those who would try to undercut the process, try to do this on their own, using my work, and therby end up costing me a lot more money)



i am looking only for serious interest, and commitments from those people to go forward, on the presumption that everything is as i indicate



this is very much like a "Letter of Intent" - such a letter says that if i do what i say, you do what you say - if i don't, then you aren't committed - it is a standard business practice - i will be collecting exactly that from each and every person upon reaching a reasonable number of people



i don't want to get into a back and forth, and i sure don't want the tone to be anything other than "hey guys, what do you think of this?", and this is already heading toward something a lot more intense



at this time, i am only looking to gauge the serious interest from the people with the money

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[Anchorman]

Bob has asked for serious expressions of interest, has said that the A/C would be retained, and that "The package would consist of all parts necessary to bolt it on, the unit itself and software for a stock to blower application (it would not take into account any mods already done or done later - that would need different software). No intercooler would be required. Boost would be down around 4.5 PSI and run on 91 octane. This alleviates intecooler needs, and wear and tear issues. This would be a bolt on application that could be done by any competent shadetree mechanic in a weekend." Lastly, that the plan is to get 270 RWHP for $5k.



What more could you need - particularly at this stage?



Bob, I'm in.

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[Mark]

Kind of like the Chassis bar....If I can ever find another 968 I'm interested.

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[flash]

lol - uh - yeah, that's kid of a prerequisite isn't it?



drop me a line, outside this thread, on what exactly it is that you can't find in the way of a car

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[ether_joe]

[quote name='chris' date='Apr 7 2006, 12:10 PM']I know you don't want to turn it into one of "those" threads....but honestly, how can ppl be expected to plop $5k with zero information?[/quote]



dunno how well you know Flash, but he's pretty serious about his projects. Ergo, airbox mod, ergo, cab roll bar.



I'd be interested but a $5K non-maintenance mod is 18-24 months away for me, so at this point I'm just a window shopper <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[ron1688]

[quote name='Anchorman' date='Apr 7 2006, 12:33 PM']Bob has asked for serious expressions of interest, has said that the A/C would be retained, and that "The package would consist of all parts necessary to bolt it on, the unit itself and software for a stock to blower application (it would not take into account any mods already done or done later - that would need different software). No intercooler would be required. Boost would be down around 4.5 PSI and run on 91 octane. This alleviates intecooler needs, and wear and tear issues. This would be a bolt on application that could be done by any competent shadetree mechanic in a weekend."  Lastly, that the plan is to get 270 RWHP for $5k.



What more could you need - particularly at this stage?



Bob, I'm in.

[right][post="18720"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



I am interested, however, with my current mods (rsbarn and airbox) it would have to give me a minimum of 285-290 RWHP for me to plunk the 5k down.

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[Greimann]

[quote name='flash' date='Apr 7 2006, 11:30 AM']i am looking only for serious interest, and commitments from those people to go forward, on the presumption that everything is as i indicate



this is very much like a "Letter of Intent" - such a letter says that if i do what i say, you do what you say - if i don't, then you aren't  committed -  it is a standard business practice - i will be collecting exactly that from each and every person upon reaching a reasonable number of people ...

[right][post="18719"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

I think you should either decide you will build 10 units and sell them to whoever is around a year or two down the line or not. Even if I was inclined to go this route, I certainly would not sign anything legal that comitted funds for something with unknown performance characteristics and delivery that is years away. Whow knows, maybe the buyer will wreck the damn thing and not want it, or maybe the buyer's financial situatiuon will change.



There WILL be a market when you are ready. One ad on E-bay or in Excellence will move them.

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[flash]

not gonna do it that way - i will have LOIs from those who are interested BEFORE i proceed - this is like a venture capital situation - the LOI is only binding though if i meet the conditions therein - remember, it's as binding on me as it is on anybody



after the first run, which will consist of exactly the number of units that corresponds with the LOIs, i will be licensing the package out to a third party retailer - there will only be one run of precommitted units at the initial low pricing - this is purely to cover some of the development costs - after that, it will probably be another 1-2 grand by the time a retailer gets ahold of it - i don't want to spend one minute dealing with it after that - i don't want to go into the parts business - i don't have the time, and don't need the money - i'll let the retailer worry about moving them



as for situations changing, that's the risk you take to get the lower price - it's just like buying a house or stocks or anything like that - you may buy low or the market may drop - by committing early, you get it at the lowest price, and then you can either install it, or sell it - the retailer will surely be selling for more than you bought it - i'm not twisting anybody's arm - they can wait around and pay more if they want to, on the presumption that i get enough commitments to even go forward with replicating the package



i really need to limit my time invested on these kinds of projects - they can become far to consuming - been there done that



i'd like to keep this thread focused - it is getting sidetracked with what other people think i should or shouldn't do - this is how i am doing it - period - like it - don't like it - i don't care - buy it - don't buy it - i don't care - i'm not getting into another round of other people's ideas on my projects



people who are serious will step up (thank you to those who have already seen the wisdom and done so) - those who aren't will sit back and take shots and/or divert the thread - i find it fascinating though that, regardless of repeated requests to limit responses to INTERESTED people, that i have spent more time responding to those who aren't than anybody else

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[968gene]

Why not do a kit that is both 968 and 944 compatible? Same unit with different routing shouldn't be too difficult. That opens your market and eliminates the need for LOI etc. Check out the 944 performance forums and you'll see a great interest for easy bolt-ons.

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[flash]

why not? because i don't want to get into that business



also, they are 2 very different animals - the intake manifold alone creates an entirely different beast for programming - it is a common mistake to think things cross over like that - even the 3 liter 944 is a different beast - variocam and the resonant induction manifold change everything - displacement and compression ratios change it even more on the other 944s



completely different animal



i don't know how many times i have to say this until it sinks in - i'm not looking to get into the parts business, so i couldn't care less how many units get sold - if i proceed, it will only happen if pete's setup does not make 300hp smog legal - i am really doing this for myself, and not because i want to develop something - i would much rather just buy something that gives me the power i want - if there is enough interest, i will go ahead and do a run - then i will sell the license, and i'm out, and it is somebody else's marketing problem - if they choose to develop something for the 944, fine - i have zero interest in doing that



this is the way i am going to do it - period - i am perfectly fine with only doing it for myself - it's a lot easier on me, and in retrospect, i wonder if that is how i should have done the chassis brace - the extra cost and hassle of setting up for a run is not desireable, but i would do it for some people if they were to step up like i am - the legal ramifications, and steps i must now take to insulate myself are enough reason to stay out - the additional costs have to get passed on to the customer



i will be setting this up essentially as a limited joint venture, which will make every buyer in this limited run very much like a partner - i am essentially going to loan the company the money for the development, which would be repayed by the "partners" upon delivery - their dividend and buyout would be the unit at the reduced price



if that doesn't fly, fine - i will do it alone and for myself only - i am not getting into the parts business



so, again, everyone please stop giving me suggestions and diverting the thread - i don't want to do it any other way - those who are seriously interested, feel free to express that interest - everyone else, if you have an idea of how to do this differently, please pursue it on your own - i am very much set on how i will proceed, if i proceed

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[Anchorman]

I'm totally mystified - what does it take for "us" to get the message? Flash has no obligation to even tell us about what he's planning, much less offer it to us. But, he's offering it - on his terms. If anybody doesn't like the "take it as it is or leave it", then "leave it". And, if you really want, do it yourself on the terms you like. The message is clear, and the responses should be equally clear. "Why don't you..." and "I think you should..." doesn't cut it. Why is this so tough to understand?

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[Greimann]

[quote name='Anchorman' date='Apr 8 2006, 01:11 PM']...  Why is this so tough to understand?

[right][post="18767"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

I think we all get it just fine, we just like to yank Flash's chain and watch him jump around <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Anchorman]

That would be just fine...and I hope that's the case. Somehow or other, though, I'm not completely convinced - but, since tone of voice can't be "heard" on these posts, maybe you're right. Sigh...

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