[94SilverCab]

I have an "opportunity" to purchase this wine from a known supplier, so I trust his intentions. My question is, his normal prices run $30-$35/bottle and I question the 5-6 time higher price for "wine tenderloin". This FAR exceeds my usual budget for a bottle of wine, but I would hate to miss a real treat...Thoughts???



Direct from barrel:

no pumps,

no hoses,

no need for settling as you are pulling the "tenderloin" of the barrel,

no filtering,

never been fined as there was no need to,

no yeasts,

no enzymes

and just a dash of SO2 before I put it, by hand, into these bottles...

I do not know how many of you have had a finished wine directly from the barrel. This is wine right at the point where the winery is about to blend and bottle it. This is the peak of the wine before being disturbed by moving it into a tank and then through the bottling line. This is the point at which the wine has so much going on, that it is usually an unforgettable experience. Sure, potentially this depth and breadth and texture comes back, but it takes a while and even when it does come back after a four to six years with Oregon Pinot noir, it is not the single component it WAS when in that barrel as it has been blended with other barrels, even if it was all from the same vineyard and the same fermentation vessel.

Within the cellar there are always a few barrels that stand out. No one knows why. There are too many variables. Most people who have their own winery usually pull a few bottles from their best barrels for their own consumption because these wines are bizarrely unique in the best way possible. I did this with the 2008 vintage.

As you probably know, Oregon’s 2008 vintage was epic. Epic in that is was saved by an Indian Summer where the picking date was whenever you wanted as no rain, birds, freezing temperatures or decline in the vines was eminent. These wines from the 2008 vintage have deep flavors, great complexity and plenty of structure. These wines will last. Most of my sites in 2008 came in at normal yields of 1.8 to 2.3 tons per acre and with sugar levels well in check so that alcohols are all in balance with the size of the wine. That said, these are still BIG wines.

Additionally, I have both the regular bottlings as well as the Direct From Barrel magnums. The list is below of what I pulled from barrel. There were at least six bottles of each but I have shared a few and then traded a few so you never know.

Put the list here:

Best Barrel - just the damned best barrel in the group and actually an agglomeration of vineyards

Cuvee Y - Abbott Claim, Stermer, Gran Moraine and Yates Conwill Vineyards

Cuvee O - best barrel from the Cuvee O

Cuvee O - the total blend of Cuvee O before and filtering

MM4 + YC3 - a blend of Meredith Mitchell Vineyard and Yates Conwill Vineyard- MASSIVE MONSTER

Cuvee E - the total blend of Cuvee E before filtering

Cuvee W - Best barrel of the Whole Cluster and all from Meredith Mitchell Vineyard −even more massive

What I would recommend is buying at least one of each of the different Cuvee O Pinot noirs, put on a dinner party with spicy lamb or roasted goat or smothered pig in a box, whatever your specialty might be, but be sure and make your meal a BIG meal. No fish please. The 2008 Pinot from Oregon are NOT fish wines. Then, pour a glass of each bottle per person; one from the normal blend of the Cuvee and the other from the Best Barrel of that Cuvee so that each person will have two glasses. Compare, contrast, then send me your notes as I would be interested to read what you thought of the differences.

These wines will also last for another ten years at least so have no fear in putting them down in your cellar for a while.

First come first severed.

$195 per bottle

$175 per bottle with six or more purchased

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[Chris Vais]

Hmm, without passing judgement on you suppliers intentions, there is a whole lot of marketing hype going on here. Let me share my thoughts and insights as a winemaker. Perhaps Pauli will jump in as well.



"no pumps"



Nothing wrong with use of pumps to transfer wine although many winemakers use nitrogen or argon to move wine throughout the winery usually in hoses, but to get it out of a barrel you will need a hose and either a pump or siphon tube



"no hoses" - see above



"no need for settling as you are pulling the "tenderloin" of the barrel"



Tenderloin of the barrel, I've got to say that is a new one on me. The only wine to be avoided when emptying a barrel is the very bottom portion where you might be at risk of picking up some tartrate crystals or lees.



"no filtering"



Nothing unique here, we don't filter red wines as we usually rack them off the lees three or four times during their barrel aging



"never been fined as there was no need to"



Nothing unique here as well. We don't fine red wines unless there is a technical fault with the wine that requires it.



"no yeasts"



Not true, unless the wine was sterile filtered, there will be some dead yeast cells present in very small

amounts



"no enzymes"



Again, not true unless the wine was sterile filtered. At the end of fermentation all of the living yeast cells die and fall to the bottom of the barrel along with any remaining grape solids, excess tannins, tartrate crystals, etc.. The dead yeast cells break down in the wine and their enzymes are released into the wine. The reason that we go through multiple rackings in our winery is to separate the wines from the stuff that settles after fermentation ends so that when it come time to bottle the wine, it is clean and clear. But, unless the wine is sterile filtered there will be both yeast protein and enzymes present. There are people who complain that red wine gives them a headache and they want to blame that on sulfites, but I suspect that it might be an allergic reaction to yeast proteins in the wine. Curiously these same people don't have the same reaction when they drink white wines which are always sterile filtered to preserve clarity.



"and just a dash of SO2 before I put it, by hand, into these bottles..."



Most wine receives a small amount of potassium metabisulfite just before bottling, but we always do it a few days before bottling so that we can do one last taste check before it goes into the bottle.



"I do not know how many of you have had a finished wine directly from the barrel. This is wine right at the point where the winery is about to blend and bottle it. This is the peak of the wine before being disturbed by moving it into a tank and then through the bottling line. This is the point at which the wine has so much going on, that it is usually an unforgettable experience. Sure, potentially this depth and breadth and texture comes back, but it takes a while and even when it does come back after a four to six years with Oregon Pinot noir, it is not the single component it WAS when in that barrel as it has been blended with other barrels, even if it was all from the same vineyard and the same fermentation vessel."



Not sure where he is going with this. It is true that you can take a wine out of the fermentation vessel and place it into 6 identical barrels from the same manufacturer, same forrest and same age and you will get some variation in nose and taste. Bottle shock is an actual phenomenon that we all experience and that is why we don't immediately release wines after bottling. Many of our red wines get 6 months or more of bottle age before they are released. Most well made red wine will improve with bottle age. I don't have much experience with Oregon Pinot Noirs. My two younger brothers have been making some award winning Pinot Noirs, one of which took a Double Gold Medal in the recent SF Chronicle Wine Competition. I tend to drink a lot of their Pinot to show my support and I also am very partial to some Sonoma and Mendocino Pinots as I prefer the lean burgundian style to the big high alcohol fruit bombs.



"Within the cellar there are always a few barrels that stand out. No one knows why. There are too many variables. Most people who have their own winery usually pull a few bottles from their best barrels for their own consumption because these wines are bizarrely unique in the best way possible. I did this with the 2008 vintage."



In any given vintage it you might end up with one or more barrels that are exceptional and all of the winemakers I know will hold those back from blending.



As you probably know, Oregon’s 2008 vintage was epic. Epic in that is was saved by an Indian Summer where the picking date was whenever you wanted as no rain, birds, freezing temperatures or decline in the vines was eminent. These wines from the 2008 vintage have deep flavors, great complexity and plenty of structure. These wines will last. Most of my sites in 2008 came in at normal yields of 1.8 to 2.3 tons per acre and with sugar levels well in check so that alcohols are all in balance with the size of the wine. That said, these are still BIG wines. Additionally, I have both the regular bottlings as well as the Direct From Barrel magnums. The list is below of what I pulled from barrel. There were at least six bottles of each but I have shared a few and then traded a few so you never know.



What I would recommend is buying at least one of each of the different Cuvee O Pinot noirs, put on a dinner party with spicy lamb or roasted goat or smothered pig in a box, whatever your specialty might be, but be sure and make your meal a BIG meal. No fish please. The 2008 Pinot from Oregon are NOT fish wines. Then, pour a glass of each bottle per person; one from the normal blend of the Cuvee and the other from the Best Barrel of that Cuvee so that each person will have two glasses. Compare, contrast, then send me your notes as I would be interested to read what you thought of the differences.



These wines will also last for another ten years at least so have no fear in putting them down in your cellar for a while.

First come first severed.



$195 per bottle

$175 per bottle with six or more purchased"



I think his price points are over the top. there are some absolutely top shelf Pinots produced in California that don't cost half of what he is asking. What he has done is to try and create an aura of exclusivity around these hand picked wines as a justification for charging what he proposes to charge you. If he can make it work, he'll be able to sell every bottle before it is even in the bottle which is a huge cost savings to him as the producer.



We offer barrel tastings several times a year. If you like what you taste in the barrel you can purchase futures for that wine at a substantial savings.



We can discuss this subject in more detail down in Paso. I'll bring a bottle of one of my favorite Pinots for you to try.

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[lbpesq]

Anyone who is familiar with San Francisco neighborhoods will likely not be impressed with "tenderloin" wine! (Sorry, couldn't resist).



I'm certainly not much of a "wine guy", but I have to say "wine tenderloin" sends my BS meter off the charts. If it's white wine, do they offer the breast and wings of the barrel? Or it could be the pork belly of the barrel (the "other" white meat).



P.S. No offense intended - this is all with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

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[Rap]

Chris I'd love to try a sample of those also as we are Pinot drinkers! Those prices were pretty steep. I purchase by the case and often gulp at the price but I reread Jays post to make sure I understood it. Jay does one also have to sign over any children for entree?

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[94SilverCab]

Chris,



Thanks, as always for your clear and insightful response. I had my suspicions of the hype.



I'd be honored to try anything you select to share in Paso.



Jay

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[Kaj Hallstrom]

A lot of good input here and well written.

At Heitz we never barrel sampled anyone on our wines. Wine in a barrel was considered (by Joe Heitz) unfinished wine and should be kept away from the public. Selling wine in advance is not even in the sales program. We could afford to wait for the release day. These policies remain in place today.

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